The Drunken Lizard Pub

So, I've got through the entire game so far, stealing every single torch in my way, but now I find that they're taking up just over 15% of my entire carrying capacity. I can't sell them, I can't drop them, so my only option is to go to every single torch-holder in the entire game and put them back. Extremely tiresome, no?

So, why can't we just sell them off, since they can be sold to us, why not by us?

Torches have weight?

Well that.. explains a lot.
*throws away all torches*

Who needs torches when you have Cat's Eyes and Gravedigger's Flame?

Right click? EGAD!

So obvious, how could I have missed it. Now I have to go and resteal all of those torches so that everywhere is in eternal darkness. (I've finally gotten to the point where stealth is starting to pay dividends, so I steal the torches by day and kill the owners in the (now pitch black) night.

Thanks a lot JL.

I didn't realise that torches had weight for a while, but they're actually 0.2 per torch, so it adds up.

Rowanas wrote:Right click? EGAD!

So obvious, how could I have missed it. Now I have to go and resteal all of those torches so that everywhere is in eternal darkness. (I've finally gotten to the point where stealth is starting to pay dividends, so I steal the torches by day and kill the owners in the (now pitch black) night.

Thanks a lot JL.

I didn't realise that torches had weight for a while, but they're actually 0.2 per torch, so it adds up.

Given that I have 162 torches.. yeah.

Rebelicious wrote:Given that I have 162 torches.. yeah. :|

Ouch!

It's worse in Book 1 because there's no mechanism to drop them. My first character in Book 1 ended up quite encumbered by the end of the game. :)

xolotl wrote:

Rebelicious wrote:Given that I have 162 torches.. yeah.

Ouch!

It's worse in Book 1 because there's no mechanism to drop them. My first character in Book 1 ended up quite encumbered by the end of the game.

By the end of Book 1, I had 109 torches (just checked).

I mean... I thought they had no weight! And they weren't nailed down! It was irresistible!

Stupid candelabras. Those things just kill rogues. You can't do anything about them, so all your hard-earned points are wasted. It's bad enough that we can't go out in the daytime, because our strength lies in striking from the shadows...

Rowanas wrote:Stupid candelabras. Those things just kill rogues. You can't do anything about them, so all your hard-earned points are wasted.

I'd vote for a "darkness" spell in Book III for just these kinds of situations. Like Invisibility but covers only a specific area, and requires Hide in Shadows (and Predator Sight/Cat's Eyes) to be as useful. Even without any additional skills, it would be handy for a quick getaway.

SpottedShroom wrote:

Rowanas wrote:Stupid candelabras. Those things just kill rogues. You can't do anything about them, so all your hard-earned points are wasted.

I'd vote for a "darkness" spell in Book III for just these kinds of situations. Like Invisibility but covers only a specific area, and requires Hide in Shadows (and Predator Sight/Cat's Eyes) to be as useful. Even without any additional skills, it would be handy for a quick getaway.

I'd love that and actually thought about it the other day, but if it's one thing Book III doesn't need (imho), it's a greater dependency on spells, casting or mages.

I'm finding it "hard" just to play a "pure" rogue already, since I have to lug around over 9000 Cat's Eye Potions to compensate for the lack of spellcasting. Virtually any character or class in Eschalon appears to be made better with the addition of even lower level spells.

I'd love to see the addition of a darkness spell, regardless, since my favourite classes are "Arcane Trickster"- or "Arcane Archer"-like classes. But I think that ranged de-lightification of torches and putting out candelabras are much, much more important since it'd help -every- rogue immensely.

SpottedShroom wrote:

Rowanas wrote:Stupid candelabras. Those things just kill rogues. You can't do anything about them, so all your hard-earned points are wasted.

I'd vote for a "darkness" spell in Book III for just these kinds of situations. Like Invisibility but covers only a specific area, and requires Hide in Shadows (and Predator Sight/Cat's Eyes) to be as useful. Even without any additional skills, it would be handy for a quick getaway.

Rather than a spell, I think that should be "smoke bombs," another type of specialty thrown weapon that creates an area of darkness no matter what light sources are around. That would be REALLY good for the rogue characters and even useful for the others on occasion.

I have to agree with the people whining about mages. I couldn't survive without level 1 divination and elementalism, since that gives you unlimited food and water forever. I always cast "create food" when my mana hits max so I can sell of my excess foodstuff.

Rowanas wrote:I have to agree with the people whining about mages. I couldn't survive without level 1 divination and elementalism, since that gives you unlimited food and water forever. I always cast "create food" when my mana hits max so I can sell of my excess foodstuff.

I haven't played one yet (so I may be wrong about this), but from what I've read I definitely think Mages have been made too powerful in Book II.

I have some ideas on how to counteract that, going into Book III. But Book II Mages seem to be ridiculously powerful from everything I've seen (almost ditto Rangers in Book II as well...).

Honestly, I would simply give the player 1 torch that never wears out. I know that cuts across the realism grain that adds so much to these games, but once my toHit was high enough I just never used them because the constant panel opening to switch my shield out got too annoying. I would use a preset, but I had #2 for my bow. So it seemed like kind of a bit too much micromanagement for something that was so useless for me.

Really, when games do stuff like that—and I'm referring to automation—it doesn't affect the immersion for me, because I rationalize to myself that my warrior is simply finding scraps and twigs to keep his torch burning and that process is being abstracted or streamlined to focus on the events and game mechanics that do affect my experience. To be 100% forthright, I can in no way square this with the appeal the drinking and eating mechanic held for me. I thought I would hate it for similar reasons, but I didn't. I'm not sure how to explain that. I have an idea, but it's too dry and lengthy to explain here.

Also, I would LOVE to find a helmet or shield whose special ability was to project a light radius either through magical means or by containing a physical light source. Maybe even a silly cone hat full of those ambient fireflies we see so often in the evening? I think either Oblivion or Morrowind had an item like that and it was a special game-changing find for warriors who wanted their shield in dungeons.

thelinyguy wrote:Also, I would LOVE to find a helmet or shield whose special ability was to project a light radius either through magical means or by containing a physical light source. Maybe even a silly cone hat full of those ambient fireflies we see so often in the evening? I think either Oblivion or Morrowind had an item like that and it was a special game-changing find for warriors who wanted their shield in dungeons.

In fact, there was a Gravedigger's Flame Amulet in Book I. Now that you mention it, I didn't even notice that there's no equivalent in Book II (at least, none that I've ever seen).

You're right - that's an omission from Book II. There needs to me something like a Gravedigger's Flame Amulet or a Gravedigger's Flame Hat in the game...

IJBall wrote:You're right - that's an omission from Book II. There needs to me something like a Gravedigger's Flame Amulet or a Gravedigger's Flame Hat in the game...

Or just a mechanism by which you can cast Flame Dart (or throw a Demon Oil) at your own hat to make it burn. :)

Of course that may result in some HP loss over long-term use.