The Drunken Lizard Pub

Ive tried numerous times to get into eschalon book 1, book 2 and while i like it as a game, its still hard to not go back to my favs-Avadon and the Geneforge series, and well generally anything from spiderweb software.
I think that eschalon series is a very polished game, but i have a few things that cause me dread enough to be unable to get far in it.

1-The fact that you move while your enemies move is a major dread for me. Im used to avadon and geneforge where you get action points and you can dictate who goes first and in geneforge if going solo, who lives as going solo is tough. I would hope that in future games made by basilisk games, something like those games would be cool for a change.

2-Its very hack and slash to the point where you dont really have a choice on attacking in melee, you just attack or run away. When i play a roleplaying game i like tactics to be incorporated that i can use in the game. Basically, everything in melee is fighter, rogues are useless in combat. In games that i like to play, there used to be a finesse or something about a rogue that makes him deadly. In eschalon, hide in shadows is completely useless. Why hide when you cant backstab, no sneak attack, not even a quick action or something along the lines that you could make.

Now as for the good points of the game, there are many, but i am going to list just 2, as they are major.

1-Openended world with nonlinear storyline and game characters/quests. This is a very good point as the game world CAN be played multiple times over. I think if anything gets me thinking to give the game a try, its that it can be played multiple times over.

2-The ranged combat system is very well done. I found that one of the reasons that i still have that lingering thought in my mind to play it again, is because ranged characters like the ranger actually have tactics. You can let off a shot from a bow, only to escape into the forest of thearmore with a high move silent skill that helps. If i ever do give this game series another try, i will probably play as a ranger.

I would say that i have high hopes for the future games that basilisk wrangler makes. I only hope that the next series offers more tactics to the builds that you make and is less ranged overpowerful.

Thanks for your feedback.

I appreciate your opinions. Ultimately, we made a game that was fun for the developers and testers- it contains quite a bit of strategy to be successful, and generally people who find the game "too hard" are simply treating it as a hack-n-slash action game. Eschalon incorporates a great many combat variables such as line-of-sight, visibility and darkness, encumbrance, attack bonuses and penalties, weapons vs. enemy type, attack variants, range considerations, environment considerations, not to mentions spells, potions and magicakal buffs. All these factors make Eschalon as tactical as you want it to be.

Book III will be a very similar game- not much in the way of changes over Book I and Book II. Beyond that, yes, we have some amazing things in the works and we will explore new modes of game play. However, we will always produce hardcore, old-school role-playing. We have no desire to simplify our games just to attract a few more customers.

As long as you produce oldschool roleplaying games, that's all anyone could ask. Im in the hopes of checking out your new party based game. I have yet to see anything on that, but im pretty siked as i havent played a good game like that since kotor.

So you prefer a combat mode and a non-combat mode (ala Avadon and other Spiderweb games) over the every move is one turn method used here. The Eschalon system doesn't eliminate tactics, though straight melee characters in any game are going to have more limited tactics than other types. Perhaps you're also feeling a little adrift in the open character construction in Eschalon, as opposed to the structured classes of Avadon? There are certainly tactics available for every type of character, and the more openly you structure the character (less hard-class oriented), the more tactics will be available, though at the sacrifice of a certain level of effectiveness of all skills.

It's funny to me that you think the rogue is useless, whereas in Book I, certainly, the ability to hide in shadows is extremely powerful. A rogue can become almost untouchable, able to go from target to target and kill them without taking a single hit.

Also, though, Spiderweb's games are pretty much all party based (though you can choose to play a singleton character). Having multiple character types under your control does offer a different level of tactics.

Anyway, I think if you go back and try Book II as either a mage or ranged specialist, you'll find things a bit more interesting. Clearly, I love the games (even more than Spiderweb's games), but I enjoy taking a single hero into the unknown and figuring out how to survive and win.

Thats the thing, as i said in the text, i could play as a ranger if i tried to make it through both book 1 and 2, the problem is though Im so used to making the stereotypical rogue that blends in the shadows and when in the shadows, is allowed to gain a secret bonus to hit or backstab when the enemy is unaware (bg2). Or actually gain experience from sneaking by something (lionheart).

1st char-The problem is playing the straight rogue has almost no benefits compared to playing a fighter. I got hide up to 12 on one char that was level 5 and instead of gaining a bonus or perk to hitting the unaware, i cant hit as well.

The rogue will always be my favorite roleplaying class, it always has been. To not be able to gain something that the warrior cant do better is not cool.

2nd char-I then replayed the game the second time with the mindset that hide in shadows was useless. This time i decided that i would focus on move silently with the hopes that i could get it to the point where i could sneak up to enemies without darkness. It well, almost worked. But i got to picky and put the wrong points in there.

To put it simple, hide in shadows and move silently are useless. If i play again i will do it as a ranger. Rogues are terrible.

Edit-I might try a priest too as priests have pretty good tactics. Mages are out though.