The Drunken Lizard Pub

I've been trying to purchase Eschalon but seem to be running into a brick wall with Plimus - specifically over their insistence on a phone number.

For privacy and security reasons, I don't supply my phone number to any websites - all it takes is for one site to be compromised and then you have the effort and expense of having to change it (emails and credit card numbers are not a problem since I use SpamGourmet and one-time use CCs). As such, whenever a site requests a phone number, I just enter all zeroes.

Plimus so far are the only online merchants to reject this and insist on a phone number. They obviously don't need it for authorising a credit card (indeed I'm fairly sure my issuer doesn't have my phone number) and as others have posted, they don't seem to actually use it to call back. I'm not prepared to make an exception simply for an awkward processor - I'd rather take my business elsewhere.

So the question is, can Basilisk accept an alternative means of payment, like directly via a system like Paypal or Google Checkout? Paypal I know has no problems with phone numbers (though using it with Plimus just results in a refund). While I have been able to make a purchase through Plimus once before, it required the software author to contact them on my behalf which is clearly not an acceptable burden to impose on Basilisk.

Actually, a few other people have said they did use a fake phone number on their order and it worked. Try something other than all zeros... ?

Unfortunately Basilisk Games (as a company) isn't equipped to process orders, so I am not sure of what I can suggest to you. Have you considered trying a money wire to Plimus?

555-555-5555 works for me every time.

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Actually, a few other people have said they did use a fake phone number on their order and it worked. Try something other than all zeros... ?

Hmm...entering an "obviously fake" number would seem appropriate when a form provides you with no opt-out but I would rather avoid doing a "plausible-looking fake" if it creates the possibility (however remote) of someone else getting a phone call.

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Have you considered trying a money wire to Plimus?

The wire transfer fee (UK to US) would likely cost more than the game itself.

I have reminded Plimus of the previous order so that may help...

As far as I know, a 555 number is NEVER a real number; they use it on t.v. all the time because it isn't a real #.

Rob
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BasiliskWrangler wrote:Actually, a few other people have said they did use a fake phone number on their order and it worked. Try something other than all zeros... ?

I used my standard "phone number" when robots insist on one, 01234/56789 but all I achieved was getting an extra mail from Plimus that gave me a link where I was supposed to enter a correct number. On that page it said that "This order was selected for phone verification" what ever that meant. Well, I gave them my number and minutes later I got my download-link, and never was called by them.

The order was already paid per PayPal, so I don't really see what a phone verification would accomplish, someone who stole my paypal login data sure has enough criminal energy to "organize" a cellphone just for that one call to affirm that everything is okay.

That said, if I lived in the US, I too would be worried about what happens with my phone number, but I don't think there is a market for intercontinental phone advertizing...

You can use (any area code) 555-1212. Legitimate directory assistance number and most phone spammers will recognize it and not bother. Plimus might reject it though if their purchase software is smart enough.

dryden wrote:You can use (any area code) 555-1212. Legitimate directory assistance number and most phone spammers will recognize it and not bother. Plimus might reject it though if their purchase software is smart enough.

For US customers that may be an option to try.

Plimus have decided to decline the order though so I'll leave it at that.

Just a brief update...

Despite receiving the OK from Basilisk to approve the order, Plimus still refused to complete it (indeed they had received an authorisation code for the money from my credit card so it should have been a simple step for them to complete the transaction).

They did "invite" me to place another order with a verifiable phone number which, as stated above, is unacceptable to me for privacy and security reasons (once you start giving your actual phone number to any site that asks for it, the chance of it falling into the wrong hands due to a site breakin or company data leak escalate dramatically).

BasiliskWrangler, if you can offer an alternative means of payment (even a Paypal to a private address) that doesn't require a verified phone number, I'll take it. Heck, I'll even pay $5-10 extra to cover international postage for the CD. As it stands though, I feel as if I've spent more effort trying to buy this game than I would playing it.

One big, stinky, rancid onion to Plimus for messing up what should be a routine transaction. Way to earn your commission...

Not really Plimus' fault, there is a certain minimum amount of info they need. But I would agree that more than one type of payment option should be available.

I'm sorry that they are giving you such grief!

Have you considered just sending them a Certified Check or Money Order? There is a payment option for that when you place your order, and once they get the money they will send you the activation link.

I will look into other payment options. My apologies again.

Shoveler wrote:Not really Plimus' fault, there is a certain minimum amount of info they need.

They do not require a phone number to verify a credit card transaction any more than they would need, for example, a Social Security number. Now doubtless, they could present a plausible excuse for requiring more information, but given the current situation of rampant identity theft, phishing attacks and data leaks (by both companies and governments), consumers need to protect themselves by restricting personal information they supply and by using throwaway details (e.g. one-time use credit card numbers and disposable email aliases) as much as possible.

Neither you or I have any means to legally determine how secure Plimus' servers are against online attack or how well the company protects its data offline. Therefore the prudent course is to assume that all companies we deal with are vulnerable and to limit as far as possible the data they are given accordingly.

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Have you considered just sending them a Certified Check or Money Order? There is a payment option for that when you place your order, and once they get the money they will send you the activation link.

Well the cost of a check or international wire transfer would likely exceed that of the game itself, as I noted above. More importantly though, there seems to be no guarantee that Plimus would accept these methods without a phone number also - and if they don't, then that means further costs to me in dealing with the returned payment. I have tried Paypal with them in the past, only to have that payment returned (in that case, they did eventually process the order upon request by the vendor). Of course, having a successful past order should be a key factor but despite my mentioning it on every email, they don't seem to take any notice.

I don't think you should apologise for Plimus' shortcomings here - it is their responsibility alone. But I do hope that a more accessible payment method is offered soon. From my dealings with Plimus, I can only presume that their robotic telephone verification system has been put in charge of customer service generally.

They, (being Plimus as an entity) do require it. Most (not all ofcourse) do require a telephone number. Why? Because most standard credit cards have a phone number associated with the account, it is just one more verification method. Now, being that several people used fake numbers and still got processed would lead me to believe that the system Plimus uses is flawed some how. So who the hell knows.

Regarding identity theft:
Personally I've probably done hundreds of online purchases over the years and not had any problems, not to say that I never will but I'm not the type to live in worry like that, I think your odds are probably higher getting mugged on the street than getting your identity stolen online. I just couldn't see myself running around with several single-use credit cards to get things done, just seems like a lot of extra work and hassle for probably no reason. But that's just me, to each his own. At any rate I hope you get the game somehow, it's a blast.

Shov

Shoveler wrote:They, (being Plimus as an entity) do require it. Most (not all ofcourse) do require a telephone number. Why? Because most standard credit cards have a phone number associated with the account, it is just one more verification method. Now, being that several people used fake numbers and still got processed would lead me to believe that the system Plimus uses is flawed some how. So who the hell knows.

Regarding identity theft:
Personally I've probably done hundreds of online purchases over the years and not had any problems, not to say that I never will but I'm not the type to live in worry like that, I think your odds are probably higher getting mugged on the street than getting your identity stolen online. I just couldn't see myself running around with several single-use credit cards to get things done, just seems like a lot of extra work and hassle for probably no reason. But that's just me, to each his own. At any rate I hope you get the game somehow, it's a blast.

Shov

Identity theif is rampant. I ran a foul of it last year to the tune of $14,000! Someone from Germany or England. Luckily I could prove I had not made those purchases and got all my money back..after 2 agonizing months. Now I never use my regular credit/check card online. I use already paid ones. They have worked just fine so far...knock on wood.

Shoveler wrote:Because most standard credit cards have a phone number associated with the account, it is just one more verification method. Now, being that several people used fake numbers and still got processed would lead me to believe that the system Plimus uses is flawed some how.

For your first sentence to be true (that a phone number is linked to a card as much as, say, a CVV2 code) would mean that anyone changing phone number (e.g. switching to a mobile) would have all credit card transactions rejected until they provided their new number. It would also offer little security benefit given that many phone numbers are publicly listed.

Your second sentence makes the right observation but seems to draw the wrong conclusion. Plimus cannot maintain a comprehensive list of phone numbers (which would have to include international ones) without significant cost, so likely do no more than basic format checks (and perhaps an area code-to-city match).

Asking for a phone number is apparently more their way of checking that the vendor is legitimate, but achieves nothing for the purchaser that an email address could not.

Shoveler wrote:Personally I've probably done hundreds of online purchases over the years and not had any problems, not to say that I never will but I'm not the type to live in worry like that, I think your odds are probably higher getting mugged on the street than getting your identity stolen online.

According to this Federal Trade Commision report, 8.3 million Americans suffered from identity theft in 2005. In contrast, figures from the FBI's Uniform Crime Report show 1,279,658 cases of robbery or aggravated assault during that year - just over a seventh of the number.

In addition, the more databases your details are stored in, the greater the chance of it being compromised (so your chance of getting hit increases over time) and for most people, addresses and phone numbers have no expiry date so an order placed several years ago could provide the means to affect you in future.

Obviously addresses have to be disclosed for physical products (and are associated with credit card numbers), but phone numbers can (and should) be witheld by prudent consumers.

Shoveler wrote:I just couldn't see myself running around with several single-use credit cards to get things done, just seems like a lot of extra work and hassle for probably no reason.

Not really - the system I used (offered by Cahoot in the UK, reviewed here) is identical to the ShopSafe service offered by Bank of America. You run a Flash-based application, enter your login details, then a cash value (enough to cover the value of your order) and it generates a card number for you. That number can only be used once so you don't need to worry about it being abused once the order is complete. Since you can set a cash limit, you can also protect yourself from overcharging or duplicate charges by the merchant. It means not having to concern yourself about a site's security or business practices which for me is the greatest benefit.

Shoveler wrote:At any rate I hope you get the game somehow, it's a blast.

Good to hear you enjoyed it. Hopefully Basilisk will be able to get an alternative mechanism set up (perhaps one where all orders are reviewed manually before providing a download link, to avoid fraud). BTW, looking back through my email correspondence, I note that Digital River were as bad - I had to pay into a vendor's personal Paypal account instead to get a product they were supposed to be offering.

Dragonlady wrote:Identity theif is rampant. I ran a foul of it last year to the tune of $14,000!

Sorry to hear about that - perhaps the ShopSafe system mentioned above may provide an easier way to protect yourself in future?