The Drunken Lizard Pub

Rogue is the weakest class ATM, being deprived of such key DND features as dagger dual-ing and backstabbing.
Also they were always getting 2x-3x more skill points in DND, to be able to supprot their wide variety of skills. Here they don't.

Buff rogue, devs.

Rogues are analogous to the classical Wizards: Pretty weak early on, but amazingly powerful in the latter stages of the game.

Hide in Shadows seems weak now, but when it gets high enough it renders you all but invisible.

Still, 3 skill points/lvl just isn't enough (or am I missing something)?

PS: Played ~6 hrs

The game is decidedly "old school". Which means "not easy". Some builds you must be very judicious in your use of skill points, especially early on. Rogue perhaps most of all.

alpha wrote:Still, 3 skill points/lvl just isn't enough (or am I missing something)?

I don't think you're missing something per se. The issue here is one of balance, in that it is largely skill-based rather than class-based. Your chosen class effects 3 things:

• Starting bonus skill (Swords, Bows, Pick Locks, Elemental, Divination)
• HP/MP bonus per level (+1 HP/-1 MP per level for the 'physical' classes, +1 MP/-1 HP for the 'magical' classes)
• Which attribute provides the secondary MP gain per level (Wisdom for Healers, Intelligence for everyone else)

Beyond that every class is exactly the same and every skill works the same for every class. If Rogues were to get any extra skill points it would be an open invitation to start every character as a rogue and simply spend your skill points in whatever you felt like (Rogue skills or otherwise). Even a single extra skill point would translate to an extra level's worth every 3 levels. By level 9 you'd have skills equivalent to a level 12 character of any other background.

There are certainly ways around this (e.g. give a bonus skill point that may only be used in certain skills, etc.) but none of them seem to fit into Eschalon's basic skill-based system.

At 6 hours you're still pretty early on. My recommendation for now would be to pump Hide in Shadows for a few levels and otherwise avoid combat / wait it out until you're the silent, unseen killing machine you're capable of becoming.

Rogues do just fine. One thing to remember is that you don't need to bump a skill up every level for it to be useful. Hide in Shadows of around 10 is really good, but you don't even need it that high to be very useful. While you don't get backstab bonuses, you don't really need them, because Hide in Shadows gives you completely free attacks.

For Lockpicking and Skullduggery you just need to decide how good a chance you want to have of completing the task. You don't need Move Silently, unless your doing something special with your build.

I completed the Destroyer challenge with my Rogue, so I know they can do anything in the game. It really is more that you have to not bring your assumptions from other games to this one.

Effidian wrote:It really is more that you have to not bring your assumptions from other games to this one.

Yes, this probably was my mistake. I am sorry

Thx to all though

What? With hide in shadows you can just stand there and kill things without any return fire? How does that work?

well you have to have the skill high enough to make it effective. Basically it is like the thief skill of pen/papper RPGs where you sneak around in the shadow to get your attack in. However, unlike those games were you lose your hide n shadow bonus you don't in the game. Which I feel is a good thing. You have trained to fight in the dark and attack your opponent and then quickly move away to attack again.

Effidian wrote:You don't need Move Silently, unless your doing something special with your build.

What is special?

Necromis wrote:You have trained to fight in the dark and attack your opponent and then quickly move away to attack again.

Does Hide in Shadows work only at night and indoors?

And do you have to move away? Or does it work when standing still flailing about?

Is it really possible to fight having high Hide in Shadows skill without any skills in weapons?

hide n shadows only works in the dark, whether indoors our not. You only have to move to regain your *hidden* status when you have been seen. Hide N shadows works seperate from any fighting skills you have. So you can use it w/o those. HOWEVER, you will have unskilled penalties in whatever weapon you are fighting with.