Unbalanced mage to warrior paths

[thomas]

Hi, as usually I started by playing mage. Those have hard beginings in all games, so I wasn't wondering that I have to sleep after every fight.

But, as I got 10mp spells not only I saw that they're not stronger than fire dart. Not only that, I also had to sleep a plenty of hours with that 200+mp - usualy getting ambushed.

Trouble there is limited mana regeneration - no matter how big your perception/meditation is, all you get is 1mp/3steps. So high-level mage is more professional sleeper than caster.

Then, path with pure-warrior has been taken - all to hp-regeneration and high resistances. No trouble at all, piece of cake, ultimate destroyer of worlds - untouchable by combat damage, untouchable by magic.

This makes a great disbalance between mage and warrior - while warrior goes it's way, mage HAS to become partial warrior to be able to finish monsters. And you can imagine, that he doesn't do it well. Warrior doesn't need arcane at all.

I found only one use for mage


Also, mana regeneration is based on perception and meditation - there's no point in waisting skill points to meditation, as you can put 38 of them into perception and you achieve same effect. Thereofe, I suggest that meditation should also raise manaregeneration limit - like that with meditation 20, you should regenerate 3mp/step.

(and when I'm into mage - spellist, quickspell and portal management should be done more user friendly - images of destination, icons for quickspells,... memory doesn't serve well in my age)

[Ihsan]

Im currently on my first play through and went a pure wizard. I have to say I was quite disapointed with spells like compress atmosphere and such, as you stated. It doenst seem that they do the damage they are ment to, a level 5 compress should do a minimum of 30 damage, but usually does much less.

Unless you are hitting 3 targets its more mana efficient to just use fire bolt. As for supernova - what a massive waste of mana that is XD.

Iv been using a bow now with the fire enchantment spell. Helps to alleviate my mana problems abit.

[tungprc]

While I agree warriors are MUCH easier to play than mages, this is game is very easy as a warrior. I like the challenge of playing a mage. That being said, the key to playing a successful mage is level 3 mana potions From the beginning of the game, you should always buy and keep all mandrake and acid. Once your alchemy hits level 10, convert all those ingredients into Mana 3 potions. This will alleviate camping constantly. Selling weapons and heavy armor keeps me in a nice supply of mana potions. I always buy level 3 potions when they show up in shops too.

I agree that there is a ceiling on magic that doesn't exist in any melee skill. Why this got through beta-testing I'll never know. It would seem logical that just as more speed and strength=more melee damage, then more perception and either wisdom/intelligence=more spell damage. Maybe BasiliskWrangler prefers melee combat

[dak]

hmm, some spells are kind of overpowered like lock-melt reveal map, predator sight, turn-undead, enhance weapon, etc etc. so if you are a mage you don't need to spend any skill points in skills like cartography skulldaggery, pick lock etc etc etc.

[Necromis]

Dak I wouldn't say they are over powered. They give the Mage the ability to open locks via magic unlike rogue who do it with skill, and warriors who do it by bashing.

[Ihsan]

Yeh stats should increase the magical damage, even if it is only abit, the later spells just dont cut the mustard.

[thomas]

I like the challenge of playing a mage.

I agree, but having to sleep after each combat is not challenge, but boredom.

That being said, the key to playing a successful mage is level 3 mana potions

I do of course have them - I get 7 alchemy by trainer+book and then trained to 15, so I could have all +3 equipement too - you need it, if you want become battlemage, which is imho only way, how to finish game as a should-be-mage. I would never finish it as pure-mage. In last parts, I mostly used chameleon+haste+bless combo and killed monsters with 14/+3 sword.

Selling weapons and heavy armor keeps me in a nice supply of mana potions.

Well, I kept finest equipement for myself, as even schoppers are limited in stock and my mana consumption got ridiculous (and I used only necessary power, not like supernova on single goblin).

I agree that there is a ceiling on magic that doesn't exist in any melee skill. Why this got through beta-testing I'll never know.

Oh, but there IS limit for warriors - they can't get more than 1hp/3steps regeneration too But, witch such high stats, they don't even get his, while mages need mana always - there's no free casting.



So, witch addition of my first "wish" - increasing manaregen cap, by meditation skill, by items - I also agree with further idea of increasing spell damage. As level 17 wizzard ("expert") I probably can cast stronger darts, than newbie, not?

[Necromis]

I actually think there is an easy fix to this. Change the spell damage to be based on caster level AND Power Level. Also only allow caster builds to increase power level. This would still allow spellcasters to increase power to do even more damage, but would also give warrior/rogue types to have their spells increase, too. The tricky part would be what factor of increase per caster level would you use. Maybe +1 damage/round per level. Additionally you could have Int/Wis effect damage like strength does. +1 per five points.

[chamr]

How about just making the straight fighter build less powerful? Seriously. Why would you want to make the mage overpowered as well? I would think the solution should be to make the game a challenge for all builds rather than making it a cake-walk for everyone...

[Necromis]

Chamr, this is not a way to make them over powered, but to actually do some balancing. Not also looking at getting huge differences here really. Think about it. A fighter type that adds stat points to speed and strength, and concentrates skill points in swords will end up with +14 possibly more damage from that alone. Even if you cut the level bonus for spellcasters to .5 per level you would give them the ability to play on an equal field as fighter types.

Add one other small change by having oposing skill sets cost more would help, too. Fighters have to spend an extra point for any rogue or casting skill, rangers of course would get move/hide (rogue) at normal cost, but also would have to pay more for some of the other weapon skills. Basically with a little tweaking you could make it more balanced and allow for classes to mean something.

[PhilosophiX]

Why's it capped? So what's the max you can put into the magery skills and stats without wasting your time?

[dalamber]

I've read about 1mp/3steps a number of times, but it seems to me that it's NOT the cap actually! I have 1mp/2steps now and I have only 32per(27+2 ring+3 hat)+5 meditation(amulet), so that is 37. Maybe that's because of druidic faifth.

[PhilosophiX]

I don't mean the cap for meditation, I mean the cap in the damage spells do? What mage stats and skills aren't worth leveling up past a certain point?

[thomas]

I don't mean the cap for meditation, I mean the cap in the damage spells do? What mage stats and skills aren't worth leveling up past a certain point?

There's no spell damage cap - if spell does 5-7dmg/level, it does maximaly 42 damage (not counting in resistances).

[thomas]

Recent research shows, that druidic orientation got huge advantage (with no disadvantages) - 3 times bigger manaregen cap outside dungeons (while maintaining regular - not lowered! - manaregen inside dungeons and city) - so is regenerating 1 mana per turn.