[SPOILERS] Pacifist challenge update

[micks]

I finally finished the game; here's an update on the pacifist challenge.

"20 kills" was really an arbitrary number. I just set it up like that, and never changed it.

If it turns out that less that 20 is extremely easy to do, I can certainly adjust that challenge for future versions.

It turns out it is not too difficult to finish the game with no kills at all.



I can only add that playing as a pacifist is a lot of fun, as you have to plan carefully and come up with with some creative solutions, especially if you're aiming to finish as many quests as possible. Hats off to Tom, there aren't many RPGs that I know of that actually allow you to stealth your way through the game without killing anyone.

Here's some related information you may or may not find interesting.

There are currently three quests in the game that I believe cannot be completed without killing someone (one due to what I think is a bug), plus one I am not entirely sure of.

Spiders in the Warehouse.

The warehouse won't open until the last spider is dead. It is not too difficult to use strategically placed charm clouds to get them to kill each other, but, ultimately, you will always end up with one left. It could be done if spiders could poison other spiders, but that is not the case and I cannot think of any other solution.

Exterminator
Similar to the spider situation. There are several areas with no creatures other than the boreheads and no means to kill them indirectly.

The Curse of the Prospector
You can charm the rank and file undead in the area but they cannot hurt the Prospector. He can't be made to step in the shock barrier in the southeastern corner of the map, either (because he can walk on thin air). You can lure him all the way back to the Mayor (although it is somewhat difficult), unfortunately, any Mayor's kills count as your own (you even get experience for them). This is probably a bug, though, as it doesn't happen for any other NPC in the game.

In the Belly of a Beetle
I used a rogue character with focus on hiding in shadows, skullduggery, picking locks and alchemy. My only chance to get the petrified wood from the bug was to find the right one, bring its hit points low with a few demon oils or a powder keg, then use a charm cloud on another borehead to finish the first one off. This doesn't work with alchemy. The game informs you that "your casting level is not high enough" to charm a borehead, which nevertheless means it's probably possible to do with the charm spell and enough points in divination (can someone confirm?).

All other quests can be finished without recording a single kill, including those where the actual objective is killing someone or something. This is achieved with the aid of a charm cloud potion/spell or (where applicable) simply weakening the target and luring them to a friendly character who will finish the job. With the current pacifist requirement of less than 20 kills, it is most probably possible to finish all quests, especially if it's possible to charm the boreheads.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

That is impressive, completing the game with 0 kills. Congratulations!

[micks]

That is impressive, completing the game with 0 kills. Congratulations!

As I said, I'm very impressed with it even being possible to do. More so because it's a viable first-playthrough option. You don't need previous knowledge of the game or a specific min/maxed character to do it, all you have to do is be careful and make logical decisions ("hide in shadows" and "pick locks" will obviously come in handy if you want to avoid combat, as will the ability to create potions of haste and invisibility).

There are too many RPGs that let you create a sneaking specialist who has a hard time hitting a rat and let you play that way for a while only to ultimately have you face some quality "unavoidable boss fights". I was almost expecting there would be some of those in Book II, but thankfully there are none.

[Tyranthraxus]

"In the belly of a beetle" can be done without doing the killing yourself.
By resting until disturbed by Devilmanders, leading just 1 `Psycholizard` back to the three beetles, he polished all 3 off.
Found the best way to start the fight was to place yourself so that a beetle was in direct line between you and the lizard, he would usually try to run `through` it, and hit it, starting the 1-sided carnage.

"Exterminator", same applies here to, as resting can produce nutter lizards in all the Forest areas, but Broken Blade is a different kettle of fish. I found it so hard to find a place to rest, I went on to a different tactic instead.

[Daemian Lucifer]

Spiders in the Warehouse.

The warehouse won't open until the last spider is dead. It is not too difficult to use strategically placed charm clouds to get them to kill each other, but, ultimately, you will always end up with one left. It could be done if spiders could poison other spiders, but that is not the case and I cannot think of any other solution.

I found out that if you charm a creature,then attack it,it will continue attacking itself.It works for the spell,but I dont know if it works for the potion.If it does,theres your solution.

[Randomizer]

It works for the potion if the creature isn't too high a level not to be affected. However the next game version is supposed to eliminate creatures attacking themselves.

[IJBall]

Does poisoning count as a 'kill' for your character? (I don't believe they were counted as 'kills' in Book I...)

If poisoning doesn't count as a kill, then casting Toxic Element in some of the above scenarios should allow you to complete them.

[Daemian Lucifer]

Does poisoning count as a 'kill' for your character? (I don't believe they were counted as 'kills' in Book I...)

If poisoning doesn't count as a kill, than casting Toxic Element in some of the above scenarios should allow you to complete them.

Poisoning from your weapon counts as your kill(checked with a poison spear,maybe its different for ranged weapons),but I think there is a topic here where someone mentioned that magical damage from an arrow doesnt count as your kill.

[eprst]

Here's my attempt



This is my second character and it took me some planning to get this result. The goal was to get as many achievements as possible. I think I could also get "The Wealthy Lord" by abusing Foraging even more (my primary $$$ source), but it wasn't too interesting.
I couldn't get "The Alchemist" since I badly needed invisibility and making potions myself breaks "The True Warrior".

The hardest thing was to find out how to destroy objects without hitting them. For instance shoot a powder keg with an arrow and you fail "The True Mage". The answer was to throw Demon Oil targeting adjacent square, it still delivers the damage but doesn't count as an object hit.

The rest is just a speed run hiding in the shadows, picking locks and using invisibility in extreme cases.