Is the game really that hard?

[Guthlac]

Hello!
First of all, english is not my language, so sorry for mistakes.

I like Eschalon Book 2 very much and i´m playing now for about 30 hours. I started with a Ranger but at level 9 i canceld that, because there was always the problem that i didn´t have enough money to buy arrows. And the damage was also very bad. I could not kill three wolves on the same level.

Because of this i startetd a new game with an mage. At the begining i liked it much more as with the Ranger, because the mage made more damage. But a few levels later i had the same problems that i had with the ranger. Mana potions are so expensive and i have to shoot about 10 Firedarts lvl 5 to kill one wolve. Yesterday i wanted to kill that Beholder in the dungeon (i think the name of the dungeon was something like Witch...). I could kill the Beholder, but i took me about 15 minutes.

After that i started a Fighter, but the weapons brake so fast, that i have the money problem again. And he misses so often (Dex 23) that i can not kill more than three wolves at the same time. So i spend 90% of my time with reparing and resting.

I read the Faqs here for Character Stats and so on, so i don´t think that this is the problem.
Is the game really so hard or could it be that i make something wrong.

Thank you!

[Evnissyen]

Agreed. At level 5, with 30 dex, 20 conc and 12 bows (weapon focus appears nearly useless) (is it even worth spending past 10 in bows?) : my ranger still takes an average of 5-7 strikes for a minor foe, misses most of the time, and about 10-20 shots for a moderate foe -- most of the time at point-blank range (and still get hit, obviously, despite another player's insistence to the contrary) since there seem to be a number of foes whom you're unable to outrun, and when you get swarmed you simply have no choice but to deal with it, there's no backing up out of that situation unless you're willing to travel a mile out of your way and hope you don't 1. cross maps or 2. get backed into a corner.

Anyway: this excess of misses wastes an awful lot of arrows, and it sure is hell doesn't help if every time a weapons dealer in Everdale, Eastwillow or Port Kuudad get new stock (once a week!) they happen to be selling a whopping 37 arrows.

In the beginning stages I'd already tried a melee fighter (which allowed me not to change genders, ahem) and found that my beginning sword disintegrated before I got a chance to return to the weaponsmith to have it fixed. I found no replacement sword in the meantime, only knives (piercing weapons).

I didn't bother touching the Magick User because of my experience (it was a challenge run after a couple of plays) in Book 1.

So... yes, it's a much more difficult game than Book 1. In defense: in a world infested with way-too-easy games: this is a nice change... but Book 2 needs something else to justify this difficulty and pull it along... dare I say: an actual narrative?

Sure, it has a plot. No narrative, though, at least so far, and this is bad. The narrative should start at the very beginning and pull you in foot by foot.

Book 1 had the same problem, but it wasn't as difficult.

I'm not criticizing BW's writing. The writing is good. It's just that the narrative is, to me -- like any book -- the most important aspect of an RPG, and the characters are second. The plot is the very least important.

Okay, so I'm critical . . . but I thought this was important to say.

[KillingMoon]

I started with a Ranger but at level 9 i canceld that, because there was always the problem that i didn´t have enough money to buy arrows.

You made very much a beginner's mistake. Level 10 is where it starts to get interesting, as every weapon gets a special feat at level 10. You can use this feat whenever the feat button is lit. Just hold the left shift button when placing an attack; it gives you a guarantueed hit - use power mode.
The feat then takes a while to refresh, depending on how many skill points you have.

The special weapon feat for bows is one of the strongest in the game, as it gives you 3 x normal damage.

Maybe next time you try a bow shooter be precious about your arrows until you have reached this magic level of 10.
Have you found the ranger in the hidden enclosure in Wolfenwood, by the way? She has ~ 150 free arrows for you.

[Guthlac]

I hope i understood everything right .

So i agree with Evnissyen. Good too know that i am not the only one with this problems.
Please don´t get me wrong. I have no problem with difficult Games! But to me Eschalon is not only difficlut because of this. To me its also boring and annoying to rest so very often or too run miles from one town to another to get enough arrows.

@KillingMoon
OK thanks for the info. I think i´ll try my Ranger again today.

Regards

[hakbart]

In the beginning stages I'd already tried a melee fighter (which allowed me not to change genders, ahem) and found that my beginning sword disintegrated before I got a chance to return to the weaponsmith to have it fixed. I found no replacement sword in the meantime, only knives (piercing weapons).

i´m playing an sword fighter and i picked up the repair skill in the beginning- guess thats why i never had problems with broken swords (only if i used the sword to bash objects) - in addition i still use tinkers gloves.
But i agree that this kind of stuff can be frustrating- if you start out without repair-without mini map etc.
When the player wakes up in his little house he could get an Compass and Tinkers gloves. So things would start a bit smoother.
but actually thats what i like about Eschalon book 2- that it is an complex game which needs time to be discovered.I never looked inside the tutorial until now-i don´t even know where to find an tutorial... but i wish there would be an help option in game. i already played 32 hours or so and i still have the feeling that there are still lot of things to discover- and thats really an very good thing to happen in games.
Running around in empty open spaces sounds boring- but surprisingly for me it actually adds to the game that there are vast landscapes which i don´t dare to explore without lots of water and food.And the spot hidden skill also enhances this.My character doesn't use this skill but i got an ring- so from time to time i discover some things.
Would be really interesting to know how many things are actually hidden that way and what you could spot in that empty landscapes if you had an very high spot-hidden level...
anyway - sometimes i wish there would be some more fast-travel-locations - or that my character would be smart enough to use portal-spells...

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Evnissyen, getting Bows over 10 makes a big difference. It continues to improve your ability to hit, your damage, and the speed at which the Feat refreshes, so instead of running around for 60 or 70 turns with Bows at 10 to get the Feat back, you take 5 steps at level 35.

Also, be sure that you're not firing arrows in the dark or in bad weather unless you have the Feat (which never misses). You'll be wasting a massive amount of arrows. Run opponents around in circles and use obstacles to force them to take extra steps to the side to create more distance between you. A good place to practice that is the Outlander camp near Wendy's brother's house. I run them around and around while my character's Feat refreshes (whatever Feat I'm testing with the particular character) then kill one and keep running. You're one person against the world, and certainly at lower levels you're not going to be standing toe-to-toe with entire encampments of barbarians, but you can pick them off one-by-one.

Similarly with Mage, early levels you're always going to have mana regen issues, but you can keep running in circles to regen mana while the opponents chase you. As soon as possible you want to find Compress Atmosphere as a mage (sometimes you'll get it in Everdale, sometimes not until Port K). It's a much trustier spell than fire dart, which opponents start resisting too often. Nobody resists Compress Atmosphere, and if you bunch them up, you can kill multiples (it hits your target and everyone adjacent).

[xolotl]

You made very much a beginner's mistake. Level 10 is where it starts to get interesting, as every weapon gets a special feat at level 10.

I think Guthlac actually meant his character was at level 10. The weapon feats appear once you've got 10 points of skill in the particular weapon class.

But a few levels later i had the same problems that i had with the ranger.

As a mage, just keep pumping points into Perception, which is one of the better ways to increase your mana regeneration rate. In my first playthrough as a mage, I don't think I ever ended up using a mana potion.

After that i started a Fighter, but the weapons brake so fast,

I'd definitely recommend having a point or two of repair for a fighter class. Note too that as your skill in a weapon goes up, I'm pretty sure that it takes less and less damage (and will also improve your ToHit on the weapon). As a fighter, I wouldn't stop pumping points into my primary weapon skill until it's at least in the mid-20s, and only then worry about points in other skills.

Is the game really so hard or could it be that i make something wrong.

The game can be difficult or easy depending on your character. Once you know how to make a powerful character, things can be a relative breeze, but if your char's not well balanced, then it can be pretty tough. The main thing which kills characters, IMO, is overdiversification. It really helps to just keep plugging points into your char's primary skills until they're nice and high, before branching out.

Anyway, hope that helps!

[Flandarg]

Yeah it's hard, even on the "easy" setting. A big difference between B I and B II is that in Bi it was possible to run through the game with a half dozen different character builds, and all of them were able to beat the game first try.

Not so in B II. So far three high level and very different characters have reached the final showdown, and none of them has succeeded (yet, still trying). Definitely not fun. Even with feats.

Not enough baddies or quests to run the character level higher, either. So getting high enough levels is problematic.

[xolotl]

Not so in B II. So far three high level and very different characters have reached the final showdown, and none of them has succeeded (yet, still trying). Definitely not fun. Even with feats.

What level are these characters at? I seem to think my mage might have been level 19 when starting the battle with Ghorr...

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Demented clerics have an advantage in leveling. Summon a massive pile of red wolves and nuke them all with a few Mass Boils and leveling is a breeze.

Still, I found plenty to kill wandering around to get each of my characters to level 20-22 by the end. The final confrontation with Ghorr can be tricky and requires a lot of tactics for certain builds, but so far the three characters I took all the way to the end (a Ranger, a Mage, and a Cleric) cleared the rooms.

These games reward you for wandering around a lot mid-game. There are treasures and groups of monsters hidden away in a number of places that aren't along the main path.

[xolotl]

One more bit of advice on the last battle - if your character doesn't have effective ranged attacks, it's definitely worth it to complete the optional Lorewitch quest, because the reward for doing so makes it much easier to take out Ghorr's support troops in the area (in particular, the Spearmasters). Once all you've got to deal with is adjacent-square attacks, it becomes mostly just a matter of timing.

[Randomizer]

This game rewards specializing in your main damage attack. Concentrating on getting that skill above 20 and the stats that support that skill. So mage and healer need their magick type and perception high plus intelligence or wisdom. Bow users want dexterity and concentration. Melee fighters need strength for damage and to wear some decent armor plus dexterity or concentration to hit as well as the weapon skill.

I have an unarmed fighter at 31 in uarmed fighting skill at level 9 character that is ready to go slap mire trolls.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

This game rewards specializing in your main damage attack. Concentrating on getting that skill above 20 and the stats that support that skill. So mage and healer need their magick type and perception high plus intelligence or wisdom. Bow users want dexterity and concentration. Melee fighters need strength for damage and to wear some decent armor plus dexterity or concentration to hit as well as the weapon skill.

I have an unarmed fighter at 31 in uarmed fighting skill at level 9 character that is ready to go slap mire trolls.

Is that with or without the Brawler's rings? That should be some pretty great punching. Have you upped the strength a lot?

Right now I'm seeing how good the deflection capability of a Shield can get. I have a character where I upped Piercing weapons to 10 at level 2 and have put every skill point since into shields, plus the amulet I'm over 20 now. I really want to find that stupid light armor skill book, though. I hate seeing the armor penalty so I don't wear any until I get the skill. I drop into Parry mode while exploring, so between that and the shield skill not much accidentally hits me.

[s4br3]

Upping Bow skill beyond 20 definately has a profound effect on your enemies. My ranger is now at Level 21 and just starting Talushorn. I have a bow skill of 37 (32 + 5 with magical bonuses) and a Concentration of 41 (with Rings of Focus, etc.) and a Dexterity of 41.

I can kill a Taurax Legionaire with just over one shot using intense focus feat. My max with intense focus is about 200 damage. That's with a standard flight arrow. It usually takes one more shot without the feat to end that argument.

My Intense Focus feat "regenerates" very quickly. About 5 turns IIRC. VERY powerful feat to have.

I'm looking forward to my encounter with general Ghorr. I think my character is more than up to the challenge. We'll see. I also have plenty of alchemy and magic at my disposal too. Gotta love that Dense Nimbus spell for those pesky Spearmen. A 72 armor class doesn't hurt either.

I also have a Sword skill of 20. Don't forget to have a backup when you run out of arrows or you get backed into a corner. That -40% to hit penalty at point blank is not nice.

You need to hang in there with a ranger at low levels, but it does pay off when you get those skills up, and your characters level gets into the double digits.

So far, my first play through has been pretty awesome. A little slow in the middle, but fun none the less.

I really should try a character that is something other than a ranger some day.

Don't give up!!! You can always hit it with a stick! , er, cudgle!

[SpottedShroom]

The game can be difficult or easy depending on your character. Once you know how to make a powerful character, things can be a relative breeze, but if your char's not well balanced, then it can be pretty tough.

I've played three characters thus far, and all have been pretty easy. Contrary to what some people have said, I actually find Ranger to be the easiest class. Here are my suggestions for builds:

Mage: Start with 15 Int and Wis, spend all other stat points on Perception. Spend all skill points on Divine and Elemental.

Melee fighter: Put all stat points into Endurance until you regenerate 1 HP per turn, then start pumping Strength instead. Take level 1 of light armor skill, and put all other skill points into your weapon skill of choice.

Ranged fighter: Stats matter less than for other classes, so you can spread points around some. Keep in mind that multiples of 5 are the sweet spot for most skills. Put all skill points into bows - ideally put 5 to start and save the rest of your starting points to add at later levels. Do non-violent quests (decorative sword, favor for wendy, looking glass pt. 1) to get to level 2 and 10 points in bows before you start shooting things. Use your feat as much as possible to save arrows.