my feelings after finishing a game

[SolarDruid]

Hi,

just finished Book I. Really enjoyed the game and still excited from the adventure. So I have no (almost) any complains

First of all - randomized chests content:
I think it depends on player if he load/save in front of every barrel until he gets what he want. But I agree that little limitation would be fine (eg. not any weapon in this chest, not any gold, nothing more expensive then 250 gold etc. also some limits depending on character level could works although it's more work to implement).

Story:
I cannot say original (although I've never played game with similar) but interesting and moving forward. I would like to have more ways to achieve main quests (eg. amulet can identify Lilith or somebody else for another help) this would make a game replays more fun.

End:
I met Gramuk at 15 level (elemental 13, swords 12, light armor 8 ) and he was too easy! I didn't finish all the side quests so I could be even more skilled at the end.

Overall:
Very good game, story, dungeons (could be larger) and technical implementation (never crashed on win and linux). Thanks Basilisk for 30 hours of fun and looking forward to Book II

Regards,
sd

[BasiliskWrangler]

Thanks SolarDruid!

[Warmskin]

Ditto to most of everything Solardruid had to say. Yes, it was a little easy to kill the final 'bad' dude. Wouldn't it be possible for the game to 'sense' your character's level at that point and adjust the final battle to make it harder if necessary. I know, people powergame to get to this point sometimes, but a harder more suspenseful encounter with the main bad guy would be more satisfying. Oh, also, could you make it so that the vendors won't sell to you books (increase skill variety) or spells that you've *already* read for E:Book2? I know it's a minor point and gotten around with a reload, but it is a minor annoyance that could easily be done away with (for instance, you can't read a spell you've already read from your inventory). So this would be a logical thing to do. And if you could increase the walking speed just *very slightly*... maybe 10% faster. Yes, I got used to it after awhile but I noticed a slowdown in towns sometimes that made the walking pretty darn slow.
These are nit-picks to be sure. Please take these ***minor**** criticisims (sp?) in the spirit they were given. I experienced *NO* crashes or bugs of any kind the whole game (running on Windows XP). I had a thoroughly enjoyable time with this game. The loving care and detail that was put into it really showed. For a first attempt in hopefully an ongoing series you have created something quite worthy of praise and I really look forward to the sequel. Thanks for keeping this genre alive and well!

[jape]

Wouldn't it be possible for the game to 'sense' your character's level at that point and adjust the final battle to make it harder if necessary.

Baddie scaling based on your level never worked (it has sucked in every single game that has implemented it, and it will suck if eschalon goes that route)

Generic Evil Creature A does 10 damage if you are level 2, but suddenly does 900 damage if you are level 20. Simply does not make any sense whatsoever.

[Jude]

What does work, sometimes, though, is to allow you to play through the game again with the same character, but all the monsters and traps are tougher, and the rewards and items are better. Diablo II does this.

Or, just let you pick your difficulty level. Many games do this successfully.

Jude

[Warmskin]

Wouldn't it be possible for the game to 'sense' your character's level at that point and adjust the final battle to make it harder if necessary.

Baddie scaling based on your level never worked (it has sucked in every single game that has implemented it, and it will suck if eschalon goes that route)

Generic Evil Creature A does 10 damage if you are level 2, but suddenly does 900 damage if you are level 20. Simply does not make any sense whatsoever.

JAPE: I think you missed my point a little. I definitely agree about monster scaling. You are absolutely right and it really ruined 'Oblivion' for me. But, re-read my quote... I was **only** referring to the FINAL battle. Just that one and *only* that one. You must admit that final battle with the Goblin dude was a bit of a let down... but, as far as the rest of the game leading up to that point, no, I wouldn't want any scaling at all.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Yeah, we'll never do "level scaling". I know it means that some gamers will find it too hard, others will find it too easy...but that really is the pleasure of an old-school romp.

Book II will be a bit harder, at least in the upper levels. I think we got the first half of Book I scaled right, but the back half was a bit too easy.

[Warmskin]

Yes, BW... My thoughts exactly. Maybe that's why I wanted to see a little tougher ending. But, the option to kill all the guards at the end was definitely tougher and a lot of fun. Thanks for the great game. I'm sure I'll find something else to do while I'm waiting, but AFAIC, you've already sold a copy of Book II.

[Daemian Lucifer]

Oh, also, could you make it so that the vendors won't sell to you books (increase skill variety) or spells that you've *already* read for E:Book2? I know it's a minor point and gotten around with a reload, but it is a minor annoyance that could easily be done away with (for instance, you can't read a spell you've already read from your inventory). So this would be a logical thing to do.

Actually that would be illogical.Especially for a game that has day/night cycle that affects vision and combat,and that tries to implement food and water(this will be in book 2 right?).Imagine this scenario:
- Hello customer,Im the local blacksmith.With my sixth sense,I see that you have no profficency in swordfighting,so I wont order any for the next week to sell you.

[silverkitty]

well, they already have little story justification for sixth-sense knowing better than to stock good weapons and armor until you're higher level
(i.e. even if you sneak to Blackwater at level 1, they don't have good stuff. if you return to Aridell at high level, they stock great stuff).

[Warmskin]

Right and besides, if you want to talk *illogical*, how about switching weapons, etc in combat... 'Hey, Mr, Monster, hold on a minute will you while I remove my bow and grab my sword and oh, yah, hold off smacking me for a while as I mix up a few potions'. We're talking about just getting rid of a minor annoyance here, that's all. The game takes *some* license with logic to make it more fun, and that's a good thing.

[Krafen]

Yeah, we'll never do "level scaling". I know it means that some gamers will find it too hard, others will find it too easy...but that really is the pleasure of an old-school romp.

Book II will be a bit harder, at least in the upper levels. I think we got the first half of Book I scaled right, but the back half was a bit too easy.

I agree with your assessment of the difficulty level. It is certainly a challenge in the beginning. The character's power just ramps up too much more than the monsters does as the game progresses. The feeling of increased power is good, it is just a little too much. Balancing such things is incredibly difficult, particularly with the variety of characters people can make.

I am also impressed with the stability and lack of bugs. I have run into a couple and there are typos here and there, but you did a great job on the QC front.

Jude's suggestion about difficulty levels sounds interesting. Diablo's random maps helped add a little variety, but it still might be nice to have. You might be able to work in a little randomness in terms of monster group composition and location for higher difficulty levels.

[Daemian Lucifer]

well, they already have little story justification for sixth-sense knowing better than to stock good weapons and armor until you're higher level
(i.e. even if you sneak to Blackwater at level 1, they don't have good stuff. if you return to Aridell at high level, they stock great stuff).

Right and besides, if you want to talk *illogical*, how about switching weapons, etc in combat... 'Hey, Mr, Monster, hold on a minute will you while I remove my bow and grab my sword and oh, yah, hold off smacking me for a while as I mix up a few potions'.

Youre looking at it the wrong way.You should not hunt for illogical stuff and ask for other things to be illogical as well.The game would turn into a diablo clone if we did that.

Besides,the first one isnt that illogical when you look at it:It was a peacfull country before the crux was stollen,and not much time passed after that,so the war wasnt a long one.It takes time for better weapons to get forged and shipped to the stores.

The second one can easilly be fixed if your inventory gets blocked during the fight,or if it takes a certain amount of rounds to manipulate it.

[jape]

JAPE: I think you missed my point a little. I definitely agree about monster scaling. You are absolutely right and it really ruined 'Oblivion' for me. But, re-read my quote... I was **only** referring to the FINAL battle. Just that one and *only* that one. You must admit that final battle with the Goblin dude was a bit of a let down... but, as far as the rest of the game leading up to that point, no, I wouldn't want any scaling at all.

Ah ok

And it was more than 'a bit of a let down'. if i remeber correctly boss dude died before it could get single hit on me (was playing fighter/healer hybrid).

And if someone wants to know how to make challenging game, just take a look at NetHack. Theres thousands of stupid and humiliating ways to die in that game (monsters are just small part of the challenge in that game).

Sure, nethack is way more complicated game than eschalon, but theres bagloads of good ideas that could be stolen from it.

EDIT: if anyone wants to know how complicated that game actually is, just look at the spoilers of it: HERE

[DamienThorn]

Just finished myself. I enjoyed all 27 hours of gameplay. Money well spent. Here are few thoughts of mine.

Final battle was way too easy. Balancing of difficulty is very hard thing to do and I also hate adapting monsters, but even for low level char the final battle would be much easier than much of the battles before that. It was a little pity that citadel was full of goblins and spiders, two very easy opponents.

I don't like the idea of one overpowered boss. The best final battles are big. Dozens or hundreds of enemies mostly quite easy but some badasses in the middle. There should always be different ways to win that battle. High level chars could just ram through and it would be very challenging to get to the boss and you would have at last good reason to use all your demon oils and bottles you have been saving. Lower lever chars or people with sneaky tactics should be able to use some more subtle way. There should be nice corridors, open spaces, powder kegs and so on to help take down enemies little by little.

Ofcourse every battle with different tactics and ways to play would be good, but because time is limited when creating the game, few bigger battles should be ok. That way there would be challenge for everyone without the computer cheating player. I liked Nahlakh and Helherron because there always was three ways to win a battle: level up, be smarter or use that crap from your backpack.

Besides of game being too easy most of the time, it was very enjoyable. Everything was created with love and filled with details. User interface was very kindly and sensible, there wasn't anything that would have make me bang my head to the keyboard as the most of the even very good games do.

There was some problems too. Game crashed about 1-2 times in a hour (okay, I banged my head to the keyboard). 90% of the times my gpu crashed and 10% of the time game just freezed when sound should have been played. Another problem was the problem with darkness. Thanks to some hint in the forum I installed GammaCorrector and the game was now playable in dungeons with all the light on and 2x gamma-adjust. Maybe not the problem in the game, but in my monitor (and eyes). It would still be nice if the game options would have some gamma correction slider.

I am looking forward for book II.