Fallout 3 - R.I.P

[GianMarco]

For those of you who haven't seen it yet - 'No Mutants Allowed' has posted up a video of Black Isles original build of Fallout 3, before it was even completed then scrapped along with the game license being sold to Bethesda - shortly after they went bankrupt.

Rumors say that Beth are recreating the game using the Elder Scrolls 4 engine and that its also being made for the xbox360 ...

Ok the part about it using the Oblivion engine wasn't to bad to hear, but when I heard they were cross developing it for a console...I wanted to stab Todd Howard in the face.

Watch this, and remember that the 'RP' in 'RPG' died with Black Isle

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35934

[Gallifrey]

I don't buy the whole Fallout 3 Is Gonna Suck perspective. It's true I've never been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series, but that does not mean that FO3 will automatically be crap. I just don't care for the Elder Scrolls game world, hence my lack of interest in playing in it, more than any game mechanics or gameplay reasons. The dialogue system in Morrowind did suck though.

I'm optimistic about FO3, albeit somewhat cautiously.

I like this image though:
http://fallout.bethsoft.com/

[GianMarco]

Yeh, but when you cross develop a game, the outcome isn't that pretty.
Especially with RPGs, there are so many limitations - like the dialog system in ES4, and the games interface and so on...

[Gallifrey]

I think it's a mistake to assume that FO3 will be the same as the ES games in either style, content, gameplay or interface. The same engine does not mean the same everything else.
Personally I'm looking forward to returning to the Fallout world, and I hope the devs do maintain the things that made FO work in regards to that setting, and the chance to explore it in a new engine, a new perspective and such appeals to me.

[Gothmog]

Ehmmm Gallifrey...are you living on the dark side of the moon? Its Bethesda!! Hellooo? Fallout is DEAD! And Bethesda is raping the cadaver. Thats more than obscene. I never liked the Morrowind games. They get lost somewhere between "The bigger the better" and "It looks fantastic".
Their games have no soul. Oblivion is a medieval "Hack&Slash" for the consoles...not more.
These guys at Bethsoft cant do a Fallout Game. They dont understand the philosophy behind it. They dont even understand the philosophy behind "RPG"!
Take a look at the market and be realistic. Theres no hope of ever seeing a game like Fallout or Fallout 2 again (exception: Eschalon Book I ).

[Gallifrey]

Thing is, Fallout hasn't really been good since the first game. I think FO2 took the Bloody Mess trait as it's defining characteristic.

I'm not so quick to dismiss FO3 simply because Bethesda is making it.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Thanks Gothmog, but even we're not stupid enough to compare ourselves to Fallout! Fallout was a stunning achievement and as I've mentioned before, it may never be repeated. It took 50+ people to make Fallout and publishers just aren't willing to spend the 5-10 million dollars it would require to develop a true successor. Bethesda's version will probably only have the name Fallout, not the spirit.

As for Eschalon, we're just a small independent developer making an "early Ultima" style game but with better graphics, with a dash of Might & Magic and Wizardry thrown in. Maybe if we make it big we'll take a stab at our own version of a true Fallout-quality game...

[Gallifrey]

What made Fallout really *Fallout* was the sense of humour and vision of the people involved. Even FO2 seemed to be trying too hard to recapture the moment of the first one, and with something like that, it has it's moment and it's gone.
I agree that expecting FO3 to be like the first or even second is silly, because it won't be. What I hope for is a new approach to Fallout embodies the same spirit, but doesn't attempt to mimic, of the original(s). Trying to mimic the same style of dark humour would fail, it'd be like people who try to imitate, for example, Monty Python. It doesn't work, it's not funny, because it lacks the delivery and innate understanding of the creators of that style.
So, what I hope for in FO3 is that it will be approached with a dark sense of humour and irony, but a humour and irony that are original to the makers, not attempts at imitation. It's also very important, and I'm sure Bethesda are aware of this, to maintain a high level of grittiness, corruption and frontiersmanship in tone. Hopefully they're having a lot of movie-days spent watching the Road Warrior trilogy, good westerns, and stuff like The Omega Man, Soylent Green and so forth.

In terms of gameplay, of course it's not going to be turn-based and top-down isometric (though perhaps having a camera that can be positioned thus would be a Good Idea - the camera in Morrowind, I don't know about Oblivion, was far too fixed, and that annoyed me - I like a good third-person view rather than first person and the third person view in Morrowind was ghastly). They had better retain the SPECIAL system, and I believe they will, along with the Perks and Traits and skill system. While there's little doubt it'll be real-time, I want the ability to fight tactically, in different ways, and progress in different ways based on my character build. I think Bethesda should take a long, hard look at Deus Ex for inspiration there.

I'd say I don't have a lot of expectations, but it seems that these days expecting a good game out of a AAA title is too much expectation.

[Vennor]

You knew that you can download Van Buren pre alpha tech demo?

Here.

I've get it yesterday nad played some time...

Many bugs here (tech demo!) and game likes to crash, but this is Fallout!

[Gallifrey]

Ok, downloaded the tech demo and "played" it for a bit, if play is really the right word.
Honestly I can't pass any judgement on that, it's so buggy and missing features that it's impossible to really say whether it's any good or not. I think FO1 and FO2 looked and played a lot better than this, though.

Yes, it's Fallout because it's more or less a re-hash of the first 2 games. While the FO games are good, they're not quite the holy writ that the die hards make them out to be. Particularly now, when there's so much more you can do with game technology. The fixed camera angle is very limiting, for starters.

At any rate, I'm not arguing that I think Bethesda can do a *better* FO3 than Black Isle could've done, that would be absurd. But I also don't thing BIS are the *only* ones that can do a Fallout game. That tech demo has nothing in it that marks the story, characterisation or such as Fallout as BIS can do.

Oh, is there any way to clear up the fonts and graphics resolution? For me the dialogue fonts are nigh-unreadable and the characters are all very jaggy around the edges. I futzed around with the settings but nothing seemed to really do anything.

[Vennor]

Fonts and resolution - go to my documents/f3/f3.ini and change res and view type to windowed.

For me:

Code: Select all

fullscreen = 0
height = 768
width = 1024

I like Van Buren, it's great for my and I'm afraid Bethesda won't do anything better.

I'm one of the many Fallout 3 forum users and I see what would be the worst news for us - first person perspective (or 3rd) in Fallout 3.

Every single Fallout fan wants top-down 3D with turn based combat and point click.

30 days to F3 teaser.

Hope Bethesda will appreciate our opinion.

Edit: I think in-game options doesn't work.

[Gallifrey]

Cool, thanks. I'll give that a try. Is there any way to put it into turn-based? It seems to be stuck in real-time mode and flipping the switch to turn-based doesn't do anything, so is there an .ini adjustment to make?

Out of curiousity, why would a first or third person view be so terrible? First person I can kind of agree with, I far prefer a good zoomable, adjustable, 3rd person view over first. I like being able to angle the camera to see further ahead, to see down a street, corridor, over some rolling hills and so forth.

Anyways, my main concern with FO3 is that they maintain the story/atmosphere/irony/gritty elements that make the game Fallout and not a generic post-apoc game.

[Vennor]

Cool, thanks. I'll give that a try. Is there any way to put it into turn-based? It seems to be stuck in real-time mode and flipping the switch to turn-based doesn't do anything, so is there an .ini adjustment to make?

No problem.

You won't find TB combat here, that's not even alpha version .

Out of curiousity, why would a first or third person view be so terrible? First person I can kind of agree with, I far prefer a good zoomable, adjustable, 3rd person view over first. I like being able to angle the camera to see further ahead, to see down a street, corridor, over some rolling hills and so forth.

Why it would be so horrible?

Cos this is Fallout and Fallout had top-down isometric perspective.

Sure, I'd like to play post-apocaliptic FPS, but not under Fallout 3 title (It can be "hunting radscorpions on evening", but not Fallout 3 ).

Anyways, my main concern with FO3 is that they maintain the story/atmosphere/irony/gritty elements that make the game Fallout and not a generic post-apoc game.

Yup, that's true.

But perspective is also important for me.

[Gallifrey]

You won't find TB combat here, that's not even alpha version .

Dang. The combat model just doesn't suit real-time so well.

Cos this is Fallout and Fallout had top-down isometric perspective....
But perspective is also important for me.

Well, with a good camera set up you'd be able to place the camera wherever you wanted, over the shoulder or top-down. The way Neverwinter Nights was set up once they unlocked the camera would be ideal, you could have anywhere from a direct top down view to a close in over-the-shoulder. There's no reason FO3 couldn't offer the same options.

[Gallifrey]

Ok, I gave this a whirl, it was more pleasant with readable fonts and cleaner graphics (though I still like the original FO graphics better). I didn't get very far though as there seems to be a bug in entering the vault, I can't get past that point.

The tech demo is very much Fallout in atmosphere, but I found it so restrictive, not being able to adjust my angle of view or even direction of view.