I agree with the interesting comments of CrazyBernie. It is easy for us to critiicize in hindsight. Decisions had to be made. I am still waiting for Age of Decadence, Broken Hourglass, etc to see the light of day.
Yes, Book I may have had (in some opinions) design flaws, but at least it an excellent game you can play! Also remember the design intent was to make an CRPG with that old school feel.
Book I was a great start for BW and crew. I can see Book II being even better and by Book III nirvana will be achieved! Yes, Book I feels right at home with my other games of yesteryear except I don't need DosBox to play it.
In response to all those people complaining about others re-loading the game. WHY DO YOU CARE HOW OTHER PEOPLE PLAY A SINGLE PLAYER GAME. Get over it. If you don't want to re-roll don't, but don't force people do it your way, or you just take the fun away from them. How would you like it if you forced to play a game in a manner that was not fun for you?
Having said that now I will respond to the topic. I would like to see only slight changes in the pick lock/disable trap system. First things first, I would like an option to pick the lock based upon my own skill as well as the skill points my character has in the abilities. I for one like the added playability of picking the lock or disabling a trap that is not just based on a dice roll. However, I think that the option to automatically do the job should be there. In other words, in my opinion, there should be a way to either automatically (let the computer roll dice) pick a lock\disable a trap, or to manually do the job yourself with the job getting easier the more points you put into the skill.
The other thing that bugged me was how fast you lost xp when your chances to pick the lock or disable the trap was high. I noticed that once you had greater than 50% chance of success then you no longer go xp. Now I agree that the easier the job is the less experience you gain from doing it, but you should not loose all xp until you reach at least 95% chance of success, or in my opinion 100%.
Having a lockpicking minigame would add way too much development time into a simpler style RPG that already has a lot of complexities in it. Of course people have already brought up the notion of minigames, so I suppose it's up to the developers to decide (Maybe we need a Poll!! 0_o). I do agree with the scaling of the XP in regards to your skill, as I have previously brought up myself.
Gesion wrote:If you don't want to re-roll don't, but don't force people do it your way, or you just take the fun away from them.
Although I agree with the statement, I find it confusing that when I restore an older saved game I get other items then when I previously opened them, especially if it was an item that was of particular value for my character. Since the random loot will be optional in Book 2 I don't see any really issues with this, and I just don't "reroll" on purpose in Book 1.
[quote="Evnissyen"]
[The fact is that re-rolling is not only an inherent feature of the game but really pretty much necessary if you wish to have a good, well-equipped character. Since the game seems to assume that you're going to re-roll: re-rolling becomes necessary.
. . .
This feature as it is, being an immutable part of the game that nobody can ignore but must actually employ if one wants an effective character, not only ruins the game-dynamics but also wastes the players time since I have to keep re-rolling several times for each and every barrel, chest and bag that I encounter, to make sure I've gotten the best goods. All accounted for, this amounts to an awful lot of game-time lost in re-rolling. I feel forced to waste all this time re-rolling because 1. I want the best character possible (which should be obtained ideally by strategy), and 2. whenever I find an empty barrel or a chest containing 3 coins, I feel cheated... so I have to re-roll. Again, it seems to me that the game assumes I'm going to re-roll for the best treasure, and therefore these 3-coin-treasure rolls become annoyingly frequent.]
I take issue with the contention that one must reroll (loot) to have a "good, well-equipped character". I think that many who disagree with you are disagreeing on this point. There is no assumption on my part that a good character cannot be achieved without such tactics. (Three negatives in one sentence, sorry!)
. . . [And think about it: If "not re-rolling" is considered to be a "challenge": What does that say? I mean, how can you honestly declare that re-rolling is a mere "option" if it's considered to be a challenge not to re-roll?. . . .]
It is not a special challenge above or beyond the basic challenge of the game. I consider the average balance of monster toughness and loot gained from defeating said monster the par challenge of the game; whether it is too hard or too easy for you is not relevant to whether it is a good design, it is what it is.
. . . [before you begin talking about the "intended audience" and whether or not the game "met their expectations", you're going to have to do an awful lot of explaining about who that intended audience is and whom it includes and what that audience's expectations were. Does it include me, for example, as well as all the other people who frequent these boards and who've voted that re-rolling should be fixed? Or do you have another word for us?]
You are the intended audience, as am I and everyone else who plays. If you re-roll in order to achieve a pleasant playing experience, do not blame the designer when such re-rolling ends up detracting from the playing experience. If you are bored or frustrated by the invincibility that re-rolling offers, try skipping it. If you feel that you cannot complete the game without re-rolling, then you have decided not to meet the designer's challenge. Not his problem.
Wow. Crazy thread here. Just started playing and enjoying it so far.
I find it insane that people are actually saying that the game is somehow diminished either because:
A. OTHER people "cheat" by reloading, it bothers ME and they should be stopped. - Just play your game and let them play theirs. Whether or not they choose to cheat in a single player game is not your business. The purpose it to provide entertainment and fun. If that's fun for them, then that's exactly what they should do. Even suggesting that other people should be prevented from enjoying their game the way they want (which again has zero impact on you since it's single player) is just insanely rude. Whether or not people play the game "as intended" isn't even the business of Basilisk Games. The only thing that's their business is whether or not they choose to buy it.
B. I simply HAVE to reload because it's an option and I cannot physically prevent myself from taking advantage of it and I wish I didn't HAVE to. - Go see a psychologist about your complete and total lack of self control and obsessive compulsiveness. Your personal demons are not the responsibility of a game designer to work around, (nor a problem the rest of the people who play the same game should be burdened with), they're your responsibility to learn to deal with in your life. If a video game "makes" you do things you don't want to do, it's not the game that needs changing, it's you.
That being said, of course any improvements to systems like lock picking and weighted or risk/reward loot system that will enhance the play experience for people should certainly be explored, as should any other things that could improve upon the existing game. However, controlling your own behavior or the behavior of other players should have absolutely no weight in those decisions. The game is a recreational tool to provide entertainment, it's not a psychological tool to make you a better person.
I agree that the main problem is coming from a same chests or monster that can drop a crap or an amazing stuff. The only games where I saw this approach working well are Roguelike games where no reload is allowed.
When for some reason you come check a forum and see people giving tactics that imply reload cheating, that is very boring.
For me that's two good reason to feel the current system not good at all.
I don't remember well but that I felt some post frustrating to read when they implicitly include the loot reload. In fact I felt almost every people posting in forum did it.
I don't know but I feel it wrong in a way that it's not cheating and this result in being the standard. The problem is that standard is weird, it's just zero balance in the game.
I use it fully at some point with disarm, too unpleasant to have a skilled rogue get a random trap trigger in his face.
It's not a new problem, it's a standard problem. The evolution about it in the Baldur's Gate and NWN series is interesting. All one shot random that are typically managed through reloading has been removed as the series evolved.
Kudos to Basilisk for implementing the choice system in Book 2! that should save them a lot of griping from people.
As for the re-rolling issue...I choose to use re-rolling in my gameplay, and it doesn't hurt anyone else's gameplay. Where this issue truly affects the game is this: if Basilisk Games had chosen to eliminate the possibility for this in Book 2 based on the expressed wishes of some of the players here at the forums, I would have decided not to purchase the game and they would have lost much-needed revenue. However, their method of satisfying most people with their own version of the "choice" system is a good one. Since I don't give a flying piece of mouldy turkey dung about statistics, it doesn't bother me that my "stats" might be "bad", but others can enjoy challenging themselves with the stats on their gameplay. I like win-win situations
Regarding diminishing XP on chests...hopefully, Basilisk will remedy this in Book 2 by modifying the rate of reduction in XP, as this rate is too rapid in Book 1 IMO.
I definitely hate to be the one to stifle a good conversation, but this topic has run its course. It is known that we have gone with a system that allows you to play either way, with a slight reward for people who chose to make the game unlootable. At this point it's not a debate, just a argument of opinions.
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