Some questions from yet another new player

[Pseudonym]

Hello, I enjoyed the demo and bought the game a few days ago. I have a few questions on some skills because my ranger - currently at level 5 - is not doing so hot and I was thinking of starting over with someone different.

Dodge - I read some posts around here today and it seems the general consensus is that unless it's at a high level, it's useless. I seem to get hit the same amount as in the demo when I didn't pick it. Okay, not really a question.

Mercantile - I have invested 7 points into this thing and it doesn't seem like there is any different between my initial three points, or even not having any. Should I abandon it?

Pick Locks - It's completely random whether I succeed or not, and this game seems geared towards save-scumming, so is one point aka just-to-use-lockpicks enough?

Bow Weapons - A full 10 points here so far and, given the fact that my toughest challenges are in dark subterranean labyrinths, I cannot help but feel like this is pointless and just has me wasting time running backwards. The constant misses and 'Hit for no damage' are worse considering that arrows are expensive and in limited supply, and I cannot use a torch while using an arrow so fights in the dark require save-scumming. The most useful ranged attack I've had so far was with a bottle of explosive demon oil. Should I get rid of this for thrown weapons (are darts better)? or Should I abandon ranged all together until much later in the game?

Wisdom - Is this useful for someone not using magic?

Speed - Everything takes one turn, so what's the point of this?

Those are my questions. I look forward to your answers.

[dare49devil]

Dodge - I read some posts around here today and it seems the general consensus is that unless it's at a high level, it's useless. I seem to get hit the same amount as in the demo when I didn't pick it. Okay, not really a question.

-I would say..For at least your first play-through, avoid dodge, it really isn't needed.

Mercantile - I have invested 7 points into this thing and it doesn't seem like there is any different between my initial three points, or even not having any. Should I abandon it?

-Well, those seven points would be more useful in..say your primary weapon skill. =)

Pick Locks - It's completely random whether I succeed or not, and this game seems geared towards save-scumming, so is one point aka just-to-use-lockpicks enough?

-Well if you save constantly...I put one point in it just to have...(and later a book taught me two more levels!!!) And, if you are lucky, a common magic drop (gloves) add +3 if you just swap the on before you pick a lock!

Should I get rid of this for thrown weapons (are darts better)?

-I would advice not to. =)

Should I abandon ranged all together until much later in the game?

-To be honest...Your hit % skyrockets with dex (for bows)! (hint: learn pred sight for darkness!) There is a guy that teaches bow skills if you want to wait till then.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Fighting in the dark, the most helpful thing you can find is Predator Sight. It's worth getting Elemental Magic when you can for that and for Air Shield. Two awesome spells for a ranger.

If you don't have predator sight, throwing a flask of demon oil in the way of an opponent (or group of opponents) in the dark will light them up, and if you've set up the situation properly, will block them from advancing on you while you turn them into a pin cushion.

Also, sometimes it's helpful to hit inanimate objects in the dark (there's a wonderful spot under Grimhold for doing this), and those shots never miss.

[Pseudonym]

Thanks for the replies, it helps. What about the Wisdom and Speed skill questions?

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Wisdom is useless if you're not learning Divination spells. Speed is useful for some weapon skills, but raising dexterity has more effect, so don't worry too much about it.

[Pseudonym]

Thanks.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Speed was sort of an orphaned stat in Book I, as it didn't quite work the way we intended. However, it does go towards melee damage... Strength [power] + Speed [inertia] = Damage Amount.

In Book II, along with melee damage, Speed will be a factor in avoiding sprung traps, successfully casting spells in battle before interruption occurs, and cutting down the number of rounds it takes for full equipment swaps.

[Pseudonym]

While obviously not being mutually exclusive, speed does not equal inertia. Speed is how fast something is moving; inertia is a law that states that unless an outside force acts upon an object, it will retain it's direction and velocity, which includes being at rest. Anyways, it is kind of jarring for speed to affect nearly every combat stat in such a direct way. I figured dexterity would be more important, except in the case of short blades (speed) and bludgeoning (endurance), unless it is to determine how many attacks you get per round, but in that case it would be more of a third outside modifier instead of an initial secondary one. I think it would be a good idea for speed to give you an extra move (for changing position on the grid only, not attacking) every milestone on every few turns (as to not turn archers into Übermensches), but that's just me.

Since we're on the subject, here's what the manual says:
"The higher your Character's Speed is, the faster they can swing a melee weapon (thus increasing maximum deliverable damage amount) and the lower their base Armor Rating is due to their ability to move out of harms way when being attacked."

Fast doesn't necessarily mean more damage and in fact rapid hits could decrease the amount of damage since you would be tiring yourself out more. The base Armor Rating argument would be, at least in this player's opinion, better served by dexterity, with speed taking a minor third role in the process, because it's not so much as simply stepping out of the way as it is maneuvering a dodge against the attack.

Full equipment swaps? I thought you guys were going for more of the realism challenge with all the 'having to eat' business.


In case anyone was interested, I've been playing my new character with the information I received here and he's doing fantastic. It's so nice actually being able to kill things for a change. I found having a couple points in pick locks actually does help though, but freeing up dodge and mercantile allowed me to pump my weapon (bludgeoning) and armor (light) skills. My only problem is that I was unable to tell the priest about the incriminating evidence against him dealing with the goblins, for possibly monetary blackmail, the location of some goblin lairs, or a chance at redemption... but that's got nothing to do with skills.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Okay, so my quick post above was poorly written. Your definition of inertia is completely correct, Pseudonym. However, the idea that Strength is the force that overcomes the at rest inertia of a sword (this would be acceleration), combined with the maximum Speed (velocity) at which the sword is moving before impact, is what ultimately constitutes the kinetic energy that the sword will deliver. Granted, this has little to do with your Character's Speed, but as I said, Speed ended up being a bit orphaned and so we utilized it as best we could. As it is, it works fairly well within the system.

Strength and Speed are factors with the basic melee weapons. In Book 2, piercing weapons (such as knives and daggers) rely on Dexterity and Speed; Bows are Dexterity and Concentration; Thrown Weapons are Dexterity and Strength.

Dexterity, along with Speed, does affect your "Natural Armor Rating" in Book I and II. In fact, Dexterity is the primary factor, and Speed is secondary.

As noted in my previous post, we've come up with several more ways for Speed to be utilized in Book 2, so it is a more valid Attribute and can greater impact your character's development depending on the build path you take.

[edit] And yes, in Book II you can do more than just "quick-swap" between Primary and Secondary weapons- you can preset entire armor and weapon loadouts and swap with a single click. However, it takes one round PER ITEM to perform this action, so swapping 4 pieces in battle means you are going to take 4 hits before you are finished. Speed will help lower the total number of turns these swaps use.

[Pseudonym]

I see what you're getting at. A bit of my post was my own personal bias against the speed stat, since it is so broad. I still think that dexterity better governs what's going on here, but that's just me. Have you thought about having weapons draw from three or four stats instead of just two, giving a truly diverse set of possible character builds? I am saying this because it can seem kind of arbitrary that dexterity and concentration govern bows, but strength is not, despite also a major factor in archery (you need muscles to do that, especially constantly). Piercing and thrown sound about right though with those two governing stats, which if other more widely used weapons had more, it could give an advantage to the underdogs.

I hope full equipment swaps extends to weapon swaps. It's kind of annoying having to go into the inventory screen, un-equip your shield, exit out, then hit enter to finally be able to use that bow.

I think I just drove my own thread off topic.

I had forgotten about speed affecting armor rating. Heh

[Pseudonym]

I've got a couple more q's. I started yet another new character, played a bit and found it an interesting change (I was using hide in shadows as a main skill, and killing enemies creatively - such as using portcullis', explosives, and other enemies). I also pumped dodge, and was surprised when it often popped up. I didn't waste points on any skills that I could buy (swords, for example) until after I bought them and got to level 5. Unfortunately, I still couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I'm going to try again, and maybe put more into dex and speed than strength and endurance. I cannot stress how much hide in shadows rocks. There are so many annoying enemies and just being able to walk by those damn hive drones is a godsend.

Endurance - Does this need to be pumped from the beginning to be effective, or are hit point bonuses retroactively applied when you gain more?

Shield - Since I'm focusing on hide in shadows, it obviously means I'm not focusing on holding torches. Is shield a good skill to invest in, maybe instead of armor (I'd rather wait to find the skill book than waste the initial three points)?

Spot hidden - I put a lot of points into this and I'm regretting it (hence creating yet another a new character). Traps don't really hurt, and the more nasty ones are avoidable with good endurance or a 'survival' cloak. The most benefit I've gotten out of this was finding some gems. Does this spot anything else?

I think I'm going to ditch pick locks. After all, chests are randomized, and you can just bash stuff if you cannot find, unless...

Is there any difference to the development (health points or skill points) in the different classes? Such as, do rogues get more skill points, while warriors get more hp and wizards more mp? If not, I'll probably make another rogue so I can have pick locks as a free skill, since that first swords level is just $100 (hide in shadows at night - straight to Blackwater).

[IJBall]

Endurance - Does this need to be pumped from the beginning to be effective, or are hit point bonuses retroactively applied when you gain more?

Depends on your character class - usually, if I play Fighter, I pump Endurance up at the start. For the other 4 classes? I usually focus on one of the other Attributes.

And I don't think the bonuses are retroactively applied (unless you skip leveling up for several levels, and then apply all the saved up points at once - there is a thread topic on this somewhere on the Book I forum...).

Shield - Since I'm focusing on hide in shadows, it obviously means I'm not focusing on holding torches. Is shield a good skill to invest in, maybe instead of armor (I'd rather wait to find the skill book than waste the initial three points)?

I've only played Shields once or twice, and from what I've seen it's not worth investing in in Book I, IMHO.

Spot hidden - I put a lot of points into this and I'm regretting it (hence creating yet another a new character). Traps don't really hurt, and the more nasty ones are avoidable with good endurance or a 'survival' cloak. The most benefit I've gotten out of this was finding some gems. Does this spot anything else?

Not really - the best thing to do with Spot Hidden is put 1-3 Levels into Spot Hidden, and then try to pick up a Ring of the Hawk.

Is there any difference to the development (health points or skill points) in the different classes? Such as, do rogues get more skill points, while warriors get more hp and wizards more mp? If not, I'll probably make another rogue so I can have pick locks as a free skill, since that first swords level is just $100 (hide in shadows at night - straight to Blackwater).

Skill Points are the same for all classes - all classes start with 20 Skill points to give, and all gain exactly 3 Skill Points per level up.

There are differences in how HP & MP are allotted - if you search, you can find various posts on this forum about it. Basically, Fighters get bonuses for HP, while Mages & Healers get MP bonuses.

[dare49devil]

Endurance - Does this need to be pumped from the beginning to be effective, or are hit point bonuses retroactively applied when you gain more?

-I dunno, on my 'ranger' I have 17 endurance and the game was a breeze. Depends how you play...I usually killed them before they even got to me.

Shield - Since I'm focusing on hide in shadows, it obviously means I'm not focusing on holding torches. Is shield a good skill to invest in, maybe instead of armor (I'd rather wait to find the skill book than waste the initial three points)?

-I agree with IJBall on this one.

Spot hidden - I put a lot of points into this and I'm regretting it (hence creating yet another a new character). Traps don't really hurt, and the more nasty ones are avoidable with good endurance or a 'survival' cloak. The most benefit I've gotten out of this was finding some gems. Does this spot anything else?

-Eh, I only put 1-3 points in it and I didn't go boom to any traps and found some random gems.

I think I'm going to ditch pick locks. After all, chests are randomized, and you can just bash stuff if you cannot find, unless...

-Hmm, I def. liked lock picking. Useful! (I mean, all I did was learn it, book +2, and gloves +3 when i picked a lock = 6)

[Pseudonym]

Thanks. I'll pick up that ring when I come across it (usually in stores, unfortunately). I had, in my previous character, pumped up Endurance to 32 (!) at the start of the game, and on my latest guy I have it at 20. Honestly, I don't notice a difference. I also pumped speed and concentration since the info I've gotten here, and from digging through some old posts, points to that as helping your armor rating. It seems to so far. I know I hit things a whole lot more often (with 1 swords... as compared to two previous characters, one with 6 swords and another with 12 bludgeoning!). I'm beginning to think that a lot of the "facts" that have cropped up here are due to the luck of the random number generator. I am actually going to use shields (maybe it just needs some major point love, like dodge) because I want to see how far I can get without armor and focus on dodging and hiding in shadows + move silently. Better to not be hit than hit and barely survive.