Impressions on EB1

[KFX]

Played through EB1 a long time ago. Some impressions in no particular order:

1) Save-scumming (saving before opening a chest, then reloading if you didn’t like the contents) is way too easy and rewarding. I heard you were fixing this in the sequel, so good for you, but if possible, it should be patched out of this game too.
2) Bats can’t see in the dark. Wtf? This is actually a symptom of a bigger problem: apart from suicide goblins, the enemies don't seem to have any kind of special attributes or abilities to make them different from each other.
3) Despite being turn-based, the game isn’t any more tactical than Diablo or Zelda to my disappointment. This is because of the aforementioned lack of special abilities. The same attacks work on almost every enemy, and the only combat behavior I saw is “move towards the player, attack if he’s next to you”. A simple Haste spell (that lets you move twice in a turn, once to hit the enemy and once to step away from him) makes you invincible against almost all enemy types. I'm not asking for anything fancy here, just the typical "sword made of ice > a fire guy" level variety that's in nearly every game.
4) The quick item slots in the lower right corner of the main screen were too damn hard to notice for what they are. I beat the game (struggling with inventory space plenty often) before I figured out that I can put items in them.
5) I don’t really see why you didn’t give the option of playing a female character. All you would have had to do was make some very minor dialogue tweaks and draw a bunch of female faces.
6) Cartography skill: I'm not sure a skill that does nothing but make the game interface more useful is justified. There's a reason the "Friend or Foe" perk was removed between Fallouts 1 and 2.
7) Lots and lots of general bugs.

Other than that, the game was likable enough and if you pay more attention to the mechanics of the next one I will surely buy it.

[xolotl]

1) Save-scumming (saving before opening a chest, then reloading if you didn’t like the contents) is way too easy and rewarding. I heard you were fixing this in the sequel, so good for you, but if possible, it should be patched out of this game too.

This is an old debate and is probably left ignored in this thread, but: you're the one exploiting the fact that random number generators generate random numbers. Even in Book 2, the option to save PRNG seeds is optional when you're starting a game, so there's nothing stopping you from continuing to "exploit" that particular behavior if you have no self-control. If you feel that doing that ruins the game experience, don't do it.

4) ...I beat the game (struggling with inventory space plenty often) before I figured out that I can put items in them.

That actually happened to me, too, but that area is pointed out right on page three of the manual...

5) I don’t really see why you didn’t give the option of playing a female character. All you would have had to do was make some very minor dialogue tweaks and draw a bunch of female faces.

... and create new sprite graphics, probably, and provide new artwork for character avatars, etc. Also "just" making dialogue tweaks may not be an entirely trivial tweak, depending on how the Engine's coded. Book 2 has taken care of these changes, of course, so there's not much more that needs to be said there.

7) Lots and lots of general bugs.

FWIW, the only bug I actually encountered in-game was the one with Siam attacking the character, and that was just the result of me seeing what Supernova was all about. You mention that you played "a long time ago," so perhaps you were using an earlier version, before some bugs did get fixed? It's a little unfair to judge a game now by bugs that have already been addressed and fixed.

...if you pay more attention to the mechanics of the next one I will surely buy it.

In regards to this, and your other comments about variability of enemy attacks/weaknesses/etc, I do agree that at a basic level, the enemies were mostly interchangeable, but I'd disagree that the game mechanics were at all not-paid-attention-to. Personally I think it's clear that quite a bit of thought had gone into them, and I didn't have the more-negative experience that you seem to have had. Certainly, things can be improved on, but IMO, BW started from a great place and is moving forward nicely with Book 2.

[azraelck]

Played through EB1 a long time ago. Some impressions in no particular order:

1) Save-scumming (saving before opening a chest, then reloading if you didn’t like the contents) is way too easy and rewarding. I heard you were fixing this in the sequel, so good for you, but if possible, it should be patched out of this game too.

Self control. I never did it in my first playthrough, and no one is forced to. You can't call this an issue at all.

2) Bats can’t see in the dark. Wtf? This is actually a symptom of a bigger problem: apart from suicide goblins, the enemies don't seem to have any kind of special attributes or abilities to make them different from each other.

Agreed here, but it was still a solid game, especially for a first try. I wish Oblivion was half as good; I put it down out of disgust within 30 mins. I paid $50 for it, meaning I paid enough for Eschalon twice, or Eschalon and another competently designed game, with room for lunch. Noximanders, Jelly Slugs, and Goblin Bombers all have specials, as does one that you shouldn't technically fight.

3) Despite being turn-based, the game isn’t any more tactical than Diablo or Zelda to my disappointment. This is because of the aforementioned lack of special abilities. The same attacks work on almost every enemy, and the only combat behavior I saw is “move towards the player, attack if he’s next to you”. A simple Haste spell (that lets you move twice in a turn, once to hit the enemy and once to step away from him) makes you invincible against almost all enemy types. I'm not asking for anything fancy here, just the typical "sword made of ice > a fire guy" level variety that's in nearly every game.

This goes in with better AI, which should be present in the next game. It is still much better than many games costing more. Again, using oblivion as an example, the rare times I encountered anything past the first dungeon, They displayed the same habits: either run away or charge and fight in melee. Devil Whiskey, another indie RPG, had a similar issue in that monsters either closed and attacked in melee, or at range if they had that ability.

4) The quick item slots in the lower right corner of the main screen were too damn hard to notice for what they are. I beat the game (struggling with inventory space plenty often) before I figured out that I can put items in them.

I noted them, and still haven't touched the manual. I personally just stored potions there that I knew I'd use often.

5) I don’t really see why you didn’t give the option of playing a female character. All you would have had to do was make some very minor dialogue tweaks and draw a bunch of female faces.

Agreed, though the decision was made, and it didn't necessarily detract from the fun factor any.

6) Cartography skill: I'm not sure a skill that does nothing but make the game interface more useful is justified. There's a reason the "Friend or Foe" perk was removed between Fallouts 1 and 2.

Wizardry 7, Might and Magic from 2 to 5, and numerous other classic RPGs had the same design; a skill which was used to create the in-game automap. In Wizardry in fact, the exact same situation as in Eschalon is encountered; the quality and detail of the map depends on the level of skill. You even needed a specific (easily found) item to use an automap!

Others, like Bard's Tale 1 and 2, earlier Wizardries (up to 6), Ultimas, and various others, didn't even offer an automap. It was the player's responsibility to map by hand. I still have folders full of hand drawn maps and notes, both mine and my grandfather's, who was also a RPG aficionado.

7) Lots and lots of general bugs.

Commercial games costing $60 have lots and lots of bugs. I never encountered anything at all, actually, in my run so I'm not sure what you mean.

Other than that, the game was likable enough and if you pay more attention to the mechanics of the next one I will surely buy it.

The mechanics were solid and well defined; the real issues were the AI being simplistic, the monsters being few and generally devoid of special traits, and a few useless and a few broken skills/abilities/spells. Nothing near as bad as the mess that Morrowind and Oblivion are, with completely empty landscapes and barely tolerable engines for the numerous bugs. Nothing as bad as Devil Whiskey, which launched so out of balance that by level 13 a party could be unbeatable, and lacked basic features like mouse support. Or the memory leaks which meant you had to shut it down and restart in order to play after long periods.

Remember, this is a new company's first game. It's better than more expensive commercial games I've got sitting on my shelf now, which I wish to God I had never bought. I'd still been ripped off, they're that bad.

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May a diseased yak squat in your soup.

[dare49devil]

1) Save-scumming (saving before opening a chest, then reloading if you didn’t like the contents) is way too easy and rewarding. I heard you were fixing this in the sequel, so good for you, but if possible, it should be patched out of this game too.

-Don't do it then? =/

2) Bats can’t see in the dark. Wtf? This is actually a symptom of a bigger problem: apart from suicide goblins, the enemies don't seem to have any kind of special attributes or abilities to make them different from each other.

-Yea, for the first game of the series I don't mind...I am sure the second will show improvements. =)

4) The quick item slots in the lower right corner of the main screen were too damn hard to notice for what they are. I beat the game (struggling with inventory space plenty often) before I figured out that I can put items in them.

-HAHAA, ME TOO! I felt like an idiot when I found out, then I was happy!

5) I don’t really see why you didn’t give the option of playing a female character. All you would have had to do was make some very minor dialogue tweaks and draw a bunch of female faces.

-I think somewhere, it was said once, anyone correct me if I am wrong, but EB1 is only a male because the book's character is a male and that is why they made the decision to let it be male only. (I think it said that in game)

6) Cartography skill: I'm not sure a skill that does nothing but make the game interface more useful is justified. There's a reason the "Friend or Foe" perk was removed between Fallouts 1 and 2.

-As a young and new player of these games I thought this was unique and clever.

7) Lots and lots of general bugs.

-I've only had one...And some might not consider it a bug. I landed in trees on zone change, a simple quick travel fixed that.

[CrazyBernie]

1) Save-scumming (saving before opening a chest, then reloading if you didn’t like the contents) is way too easy and rewarding. I heard you were fixing this in the sequel, so good for you, but if possible, it should be patched out of this game too.

I agree with everyone else on this one. If only they could agree with each other, instead of repeating it over and over...

2) Bats can’t see in the dark. Wtf? This is actually a symptom of a bigger problem: apart from suicide goblins, the enemies don't seem to have any kind of special attributes or abilities to make them different from each other.

I agree with bats/goblins/other night-crawlers needing some sort of darkvision.

3) Despite being turn-based, the game isn’t any more tactical than Diablo or Zelda to my disappointment. This is because of the aforementioned lack of special abilities. The same attacks work on almost every enemy, and the only combat behavior I saw is “move towards the player, attack if he’s next to you”. A simple Haste spell (that lets you move twice in a turn, once to hit the enemy and once to step away from him) makes you invincible against almost all enemy types. I'm not asking for anything fancy here, just the typical "sword made of ice > a fire guy" level variety that's in nearly every game.

I too would like to see a little more variety... such as more enemies with range weapons/spells/etc. However, making the game more like nearly every other game out there isn't necessarily a good thing.

4) The quick item slots in the lower right corner of the main screen were too damn hard to notice for what they are. I beat the game (struggling with inventory space plenty often) before I figured out that I can put items in them.

I never really understood the issue people had/have with quickslots... the game is turn-based, which makes them pretty much unneccessary. I too beat the game once before even realizing their presence... but I tended to take time to organize my backpack, so it wasn't a big deal. I'd vote them out of the interface if it meant making the amount of playable view larger.

5) I don’t really see why you didn’t give the option of playing a female character. All you would have had to do was make some very minor dialogue tweaks and draw a bunch of female faces.

*shrug* While I prefer to gaze at members of the fairer sex, it's not really a requirement in a game for me to have a choice. Sometimes limiting it can be better for the sake of story/character development.

6) Cartography skill: I'm not sure a skill that does nothing but make the game interface more useful is justified. There's a reason the "Friend or Foe" perk was removed between Fallouts 1 and 2.

It would be nice for the player to at least get a basic outline capability on the minimap without having to dump points into cartography.

7) Lots and lots of general bugs.

... are not present in the current version? It does suck when jumping on a newly released game and having to deal with lots of showstopper bugs, but I didn't really see that with this game. Ultima IX: Ascension and Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor comes to mind.

Other than that, the game was likable enough and if you pay more attention to the mechanics of the next one I will surely buy it.

That's an odd bit of a statement. Sounds like the only thing you didn't have a problem with was the story. Well, I have been known to overlook a lot in a game if the story is really well put together. Personally I think you'll buy the next one because the Power of Eschalon compels you!