Price

[Andiar]

stealing is removing something from its original owner.
piracy is making a copy.

the author is fully aware of the nature of the platform he is developing for and how said platforms can freely distribute information.
you cant write a book and leave it at public bus stop and then cry theft when someone copies it. no matter what any EULA or any agreement you read anywhere says. its consitutional law at its finest. some big corporate lawyers are able to manipulate the system with a few victories here and there, but it wont get further than that.

freedom of speech implies to machines as well, for they are tools of speech humans operate.

piracy is computers talking to each other.

theft would be breaking into developers home and/or computer and taking their source code.

does anyone here think on their own or do you all rely on the thoughts of others?

[Andiar]

10$

[Randomizer]

If I relied on your thoughts, then if I hired you for work and decided your job wasn't what I thought it should be then I could not pay you or pay you less than what you wanted. After all the customer is always right and I should be able to reset the price for your labor even after we reached an agreement. I doubt that you would like it. Of course we could then go to court and let a judge decide whose view of payment was correct.

Tom set a price for what he thinks his game is worth. If you think the price is too high than don't buy it. Pirating a copy means you don't want to pay for something you are using.

Tom was well aware that anything he made would be pirated. There are other topics on the subject. Copy protection schemes to make it harder only irritate the loyal customers that actually pay money for the game (AutoCAD once was sold with a physical device that had to be attached to the data port to run the program). I know you aren't one of them. Piracy is still a form of theft, no matter how you want to weasel word it.

[CrazyBernie]

i think the price for the game is too high. dont get me wrong, the gameplay value is about right but the production value is way off. i have noticed from the little time i have spent on this forum that some of the developers might have negative opinions about the "main stream" game industry. this is ENTIRELY understandable. i can go on and on for days about how pathetic PC gaming has become. but what strikes me as odd is why go around and charge so much for such a simple game. 20, 30$?!?!... comon. millions go into producing big games and they only charge 50-60$. it didnt really cost you guys anything to make this great game, why charge so much? is it plain and simple greed?

im a huge indie game supporter but the price you guys ask for has got some of us mad. one of the greatest things about indie games are the fact that they are seperated from all the corporate BS that goes on today. the price you guys set is very "un-indie". the price of this game should be 10$.

anyway, i didnt pay for this copy but i will when eb2 comes out to support you guys regardless of price. but lets just hope the price is more appropriate this time.

How exactly is the production value off?? Have you ever purchased a $20 game in an electronics store? Many of them suck far more than Eschalon ever will. Gameplay is far more important than these mysterious production values you speak of.

I originally expressed concern over the ~$40 original price tag, but $20 is hardly worth complaining about.

Someone who pirates something and THEN complains about the price needs to shut the hell up. If you, Mr. Disposable Income, are having trouble scraping up an extra $10 over your "percieved value" then you probably shouldn't be playing video games.

they seem to go out of their way to trash on commercial software and/or microsoft but yet they charge 20-30$ for something thats worth nowhere near that. its quite possible that they are trash talking commercial software/microsoft as a marketing technique and that they dont actually believe in any of the stuff they say. but are only trying to capture that niche audience of microsoft haters out there to make a higher profit.

So because Basilisk makes a multi-platform game, that makes him a MS hater trying to capture MS haters for fans? Seriously?

Honestly, everyone except myself seems to hate on Microsoft... it's become an accepted practice. I don't really have issues with them, as I have a lifetime MSDN membership and don't need to pay for an OS, productivity suite, etc. If I did, I still would buy MS products, because they work for me. In the end, that's really all that matters.

Eschalon is a niche game to begin with. It seems kinda silly talking about capturing a niche audience for a niche-targeted game. Then again, arguing about the price of a niche game is even sillier... but here we are.

mount and blade is 30$ off their official website and 15$ almost everywhere else, and that is the best indie game of all time. hell, one of the top 10 best games of all time. it is also a much more complex game.

Mount and Blade is crap. I wouldn't pay $10 for it... and I wouldn't take the time to pirate it as you most likely did. Please excuse me for profiling.

actually i do know what im talking about.

That's questionable, at best. You single-handedly develop a game on your own with only a couple of people to help you out; then you might qualify to make that statement.

again, im not making any accusations or anything like that.

That's exactly what you are doing. No point in trying to sugar coat it to save face.

its just wrong to charge a high inflated apple/microsoft price when your an advocate of linux/free software/open source/gpl. which the devs clearly are.

Again, I laugh at your perception of "high/inflated."

god im arguing with children.

Dude, you need to seriously start using proper grammar techniques before you start making comments like that. While you're at it, use Firefox... with the spell-check option turned on. I would have pegged you for about 13-14 with your inherent inability (or perhaps rebellious refusal) to use the damn shift key and proper punctuation. As-is, I still wouldn't accept anything beyond 16 as your rightful age.

its just hilarious seeing people charge 20-30$ for a VERY primitive game.

Checkers is a VERY primitive game (OMG, did you use the SHIFT key??? Holy SHIT!). Chess is a VERY primitive game. Eschalon: Book I is a minimalistic, niche-targeted RPG. Simple, yes. Primitive? Not really. That's like calling a motorcycle a primitive form of transportation because the motor has fewer cylinders than a Dodge Viper.

linux has its flaws, but it is still a much more complex and totally free project. which is why i bring up linux, its to negate any claims of "worth" you people think eb1 has. also, linux is used by more than just people who know how to program. i mean the rest of your post is just babble about how and why you think eschalon book is properly priced. it is all stuff that has been said and defeated already. providing support over a forum is not some huge task the devs deserve praise over. neither is making a patch. this is all stuff they do to generate profit. its not a favor for you. and finally, nobody is saying eb1 should be free. i know this is his "full time job". im not saying he shouldnt charge people for it. he just overcharges for it.

*snicker* How long has Linux been in development for? How many flavors does it have? How many commercial distros exist? How many people are actively developing it? Hardly a proper comparison in any way to Eschalon. I find Eschalon to have far more worth than any version of Linux. I have no problems putting up money for Eschalon sequels. I would, however, be hard pressed to accept monetary compensation to use Linux.

stealing is removing something from its original owner.

AKA Illegally obtaining something that doesn't belong to you.

piracy is making a copy.

AKA Illegally obtaining something that doesn't belong to you.

Hmmmm... I'm beginning to see a pattern here... Sorry, but I'm with Randomizer on this one... playing with semantics is just an attempt to justify your illegal activities as somehow being morally acceptable. At the end of the day you're still stealing someone's shit, albeit in a more high-tech fashion. You just feel better about it because of the lack of a tangible object.

[thewrinklyninja]

I think John Gabriels Greater Internet ****wad Theory may be in effect here.

Also by your own logic, do you walk into car dealerships tell them that the prices are inflated and the car is not worth the price and then walk around the corner and steal one?.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Andiar, if you had bought the game and then came to us to explain why you thought it was overpriced, we would have listened to you because you would be our customer. I would have even given you a refund if you requested it.

You've stole our game. We've let you drone on for 2 pages trying to defend your position which has no merit.

Thank you to Jedi_Learner, thewrinklyninja, CrazyBernie, Randomizer, Kreador Freeaxe, and Elveron for your support. You guys rock.