Question About The "Predetermined Seed" Option

[IJBall]

OK, so as I've been playing Book II thus far, I've been choosing the "predetermined seed" game option for my characters because I did way(!) too much 'loot farming' in my later Book I playthroughs!

Anyway, I've confirmed that things like lock picking and trap disarming and item generation inside chest and barrels is, in fact, "static" and does not change after multiple reloadings with this game option enforced.

But I just did a reload on a corpse with some gold coin treasure, and when I reloaded I got more gold coins the second time!

So is the "predetermined seed" not supposed to apply to gold as well as items?! (That just seems wrong to me...)

Or have I stumbled upon a bug?

[KillingMoon]

My suspicion is that contents of immobile objects get determined at the start of the game, but that the result of a kill is the result of a throw of the dice at that moment.
I believe the same thing is the case with lockpicking and trap disarming; a calculation can't be made beforehand, because the game doesn't know in advance with what kind of skill you will approach the lock or trap.

That's what I've seen. I've had periods that my game crashed a lot, and then I had to replay from the last save, so regretfully I have some experience. Bear in mind that I haven't done any methodical testing and that I'm also still a bit of a greenhorn with the game.

[Randomizer]

It depends when the seed is generated.

I went and looted the chest in Windy Plains House of Worship. Then I reloaded from before entering that map and the chest had a different amount of gold.

Now once I enter the map containing Talushorn the contents stay the same even though I haven't entered Talushorn.

[IJBall]

Just to make this issue clear, the corpse whose gold I reloaded on was not from a 'kill' - it's the "static" corpse in the SE corner of the Wolfenwood map.

And I didn't leave the map and then come back - it was an "immediate" reload while standing directly over the corpse.

It's starting to sound like this may be some kind of bug(?)...

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Just to make this issue clear, the corpse whose gold I reloaded on was not from a 'kill' - it's the "static" corpse in the SE corner of the Wolfenwood map.

And I didn't leave the map and then come back - it was an "immediate" reload while standing directly over the corpse.

It's starting to sound like this may be some kind of bug(?)...

A question about the other found items with the fixed random seed. Were any pieces of equipment found always the same repair status on reloads? I ask because money seems to be found in a set of predetermined ranges. It may be a similar issue and narrow down what BW would be looking at if there's a buggy part to the fixed seed.

[Noru]

I assume the type of the loot is predetermined with the seed, the quality (or in case of gold: quantity) is not or only within a range.

[KillingMoon]

Perhaps the gold is only fixed in terms of 'small amount', 'medium amount' and 'big amount' or something along those lines.
I assume it's not like you find 16 gold on one occasion, and 10 times as much on a reload?

With traps and locks it could of course be that if you reload and in your second attempt you do everything exactly the same, like not stepping on a different tile or something, that the result will be similar.
It's easier to do everything similar if you're saving the exact turn before an attempt with a lock or trap. I usually was reloading from a couple of blocks back, so I still had a long walk to a door or chest, and will probably have taken a step left or right. Then the results are different.

[Farwalker]

I have a question on how this works... just about to start my first hardcore game.

I know that the content of containers can scale in value according to your level. With "predetermined seed" turned on, does anyone know how this works?

Most important, when is your level taken into account? Is it when you open the container? When you first enter the map with the container?

I'm wondering if I need to avoid wandering around at low level so that I don't nerf the quality of stuff I may open later... Or can I roam around freely without a worry about that?

Thanks in advance all

[KillingMoon]

I know that the content of containers can scale in value according to your level.

I've read this a few times, so there must be truth in it, but I'm seriously surprised.
Westwillow is the main reason that I'm sceptical; I've never entered it with a low level character, but I've only ever found utter garbage there; the kind of stuff you sell to Keebo for 1 gold a piece to be rid of it.
On the other hand, I've always found high level stuff at the guards you pass on the way to Durnore, and also the stuff at the quarters of the secret society at the Forsaken Coast has usually been interesting, while my level has been much lower when visiting these places.

Maybe you won't gain much by holding off visiting an area. Even if the stuff gets a little bit better, your own criteria for what is good and not good will also have sharpened.
I have a very strong hunch that the stuff in the containers gets determined when you enter the area, not when you open up a specific container. You'll probably need one of the 'experts' of the game for confirmation, though.

[SpottedShroom]

Some loot does scale according to character level. The vast majority, however, does not - the "level" of the treasure is fixed no matter what level you are when you find it.

From playing without save seed on, I believe that container contents are decided when you open them, not when you first visit a map.

I also suspect but have not verified that the saved seed is just that - the seed for the random number generator. So there are still ways to get different loot out of a container, just with a bit more effort. For example:

1. Save game next to a container
2. Open it and get crap loot
3. Reload
4. Go do something else that requires the game to use random numbers
5. Come back to the container
6. Open it and get different loot (?)

[Farwalker]

I know that the content of containers can scale in value according to your level.

I've read this a few times, so there must be truth in it, but I'm seriously surprised.
Westwillow is the main reason that I'm sceptical; I've never entered it with a low level character, but I've only ever found utter garbage there; the kind of stuff you sell to Keebo for 1 gold a piece to be rid of it.
On the other hand, I've always found high level stuff at the guards you pass on the way to Durnore, and also the stuff at the quarters of the secret society at the Forsaken Coast has usually been interesting, while my level has been much lower when visiting these places.

Maybe you won't gain much by holding off visiting an area. Even if the stuff gets a little bit better, your own criteria for what is good and not good will also have sharpened.
I have a very strong hunch that the stuff in the containers gets determined when you enter the area, not when you open up a specific container. You'll probably need one of the 'experts' of the game for confirmation, though.

My guess is that there are mins and maxes on the "level" of quality. I did a run exploring at level 1 (no experience at all actually) and random seed, there were lots of chests I found that seemed to have really high level stuff - I'm guessing that may have been the "min" level for those containers.

I also did some testing with loot dropped from outlanders on random seed, and the content did seem to scale up a bit as I increased my level - but it only goes so far (you hit the "max" level).

[Farwalker]

So there are still ways to get different loot out of a container, just with a bit more effort. For example:

1. Save game next to a container
2. Open it and get crap loot
3. Reload
4. Go do something else that requires the game to use random numbers
5. Come back to the container
6. Open it and get different loot (?)

Some of the comments I've read suggest it's not quite so simple. There may be some things you can do to get a different result, but it's not a matter of using up the random number on something else so you can get the "next" random number and use it on the chest.

However, if a predetermined random number is combined with your level at time of opening, that would be fine. I could come back at higher level and get something different.

[KillingMoon]

Once I had a bug in my game where the whole of Eastwillow map got 'refreshed', so all containers had stuff in it again, but it was exactly the same stuff as I had started off with.

If someone is keen enough to want to test this, this is what I would suggest to do; just take a game in a far stage, delete a few early maps, and come back there with your high level character, and compare with what you've found at the start of the game.

But it would probably helpful if one of the Randomizers or CrazyBernies of this game would help us out, although for me it's merely curiousity that makes me want to know this.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

I think BW said that maps had "level" settings on them in Book II, so that certain areas would always have higher level stuff and certain areas always have lower level stuff, and some chests/caches have a "level bonus" because of the difficulty of accessing them.

[Farwalker]

As far as I can tell it works like this:

Containers with random content on a map seem to have fixed content regardless of your level when you open the container, and regardless of your level when you first enter the map. Mind you, I've only tried a 5 level difference, but that's probably enough of an indication.

For containers with items whose quality increases with your level, the quality seems to be calculated when you open the chest. Tested it on the sandals and cloak under the first town.

This is encouraging, suggests I might not need to be so careful of what maps I enter at low level. (And that makes it a reasonable option to choose to play, otherwise it wouldn't be as much fun.)