Stealth and thievery rant

[omnom]

So I played through Book II. And it was great. But the stealth... goddamnit.

Book II committed the same sin with stealth that a bunch of other games have committed before. The great sin is that the NPCs buzz around like flies or bees, they're never standing or sitting still long enough for any thief or stealth-oriented character to sneak upon. At best an NPC stands still like 5-10 rounds, which isn't nearly long enough. And related to that, there's no backstab damage bonus, like there traditionally is in RPGs. I wish the guards and other NPCs had routines, so I could predict their movements.

Also, I want that being a sneaky and observant thief would actually mean something. I want to sneak upon unsuspecting NPCs and stab them to next week. I want to be able to run away and find a dark corner from where I'll ambush and backstab the first guard who comes after me. I want to pickpocket the vital key from that guard who's sleeping at guard duty. I want to break into people's houses while they're asleep and liberate them from their possessions. I want to sneak into the shopkeeper's home during day while he's at his shop. I want to shoplift. I want to break out of a prison after being caught shoplifting. I want to plant evidence to frame other NPCs for crimes they most certainly did not commit (because I did it all). I want to smuggle illegal merchandise. Well... I suppose I want to do all kinds of shady stealth-related things in RPGs.

I gotta admit though, the extra darkness due to those rainy nights in the game was impressive and refresing. Perhaps you could also implement moonlight? Full moon vs. new moon. Brighter vs. darker nights.

Thanks for reading.

[CrazyBernie]

So you want enemies to stand around like mindless zombies?? 0_o

Also, if you have your stealth high enough, you can pretty much stab your enemy in the face and he/she/it won't be able to see you. That's better than backstabbing, IMHO.

[AXS]

So I played through Book II. And it was great. But the stealth... goddamnit.

I just can´t see BW , programing a walk , job , sleep and leisure time for every npc , in the game ,taking into account the quest prism, a soldier that gets sleeps so you can steal from him, a citizen that exits the town at 12 0´clock for you to chase him/her .


The idea of the npc´s routine ,seems like a really great idea , but i think it would be too much time consuming,in terms of design ,and programation.

[mph66]

I agree that stealth could be more than it is. Right now, a rogue is not a viable character. It's a wimpy fighter. Combine things like lockpicking/traps and combine hide in shadows/move silently. A rogue requires an @$$load of skill points compared to a fighter, who can just pile on the weapon and armor points and call it a day. Fighters = overpowered. Rogues = underpowered.

[Painted Lady]

Actually, my last play-through of Book II was as a Rogue. Her specialties were Unarmed Combat, Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. She buffed up with both Elemental and Divination spells. I thought she was a really fun character to play

[geishaboy]

I normally play either a rogue type or ranger type character. I always thought the rogue to be quite powerful, but really specialised in the way of skills and attributes, which is how (in my experience) rogues anormally progress in RPGs. They may be a weak character to start off with, but if you know what you are doing with skills and attributes they can become death incarnate at higher levels. I don't think the thief type character in Book 1 or 2 is underpowered or broken at all, however a "backstab" or "sneak attack" type ability would be pretty awesome.

The biggest problem that I can see with the game mechanics and rogues is that by sneaking past enemies like a rogue would makes you miss out on precious experience points.

I think that the rogue is probably one of the harder classes to play but the payoff is normally worth it

[Antigrav]

With piercing weapons relying on dex and speed rather than strength and speed, you really only have 2 1/2 attributes to worry about: dex, concentration, and a little speed if you like. That sets you up well for bows, daggers and spears as well as all the rogue skills.

For skills, you might find that Move Silently is a waste of points. I've also only ever put maybe 4 - 5 into Skullduggery (after reading the book), focusing more on weapons skills and lock picking, changing gloves out for the task. Hide in Shadows seems effective in Book II at around 9, plus there are plenty of boosts from items.

Not as easy as a mage, of course, who only has to worry about perception, with a little int and concentration. Spells then take care of everything, allowing the mage to float through life on a cushion of mana.