Thoughts On Book 2 So Far (With A Suggestion)

[Knightofhopex]

Started today and I gotta say, I'm loving it. I'm playing through on very easy, but that's just because I often get busy and don't have as much time as I'd like to have to play games. My build is trashing stuff this time around, so I'm sure I'd be having no problems on Hardcore, which I do plan to eventually play through when I have the time.

Which is why I suggest adding a game speed slider in Book 3. Even if some people will make it through the content quickly, that doesn't mean they're not going to love it and tell their friends about it. Some people like to read everything and some people don't like to read anything they don't absolutely need to know. Always good when developers let the player decide how they enjoy the content!

Thanks guys! Great work on this one. Keep up the good work!

[Lord_P]

Glad your enjoying it!

This one has been suggested, discussed and argued many times. Even though I agree with it (not really needing it myself, though), I still think that the slow paced adventuring really makes up a large part of the spirit of Eschalon.

EDIT: 100th post here!

[Knightofhopex]

Glad your enjoying it!

This one has been suggested, discussed and argued many times. Even though I agree with it (not really needing it myself, though), I still think that the slow paced adventuring really makes up a large part of the spirit of Eschalon.

EDIT: 100th post here!

Yeah, I get that it is an essence of a gaming experience. It's just one that encroaches upon casual gaming when it's not optional though. That's the only thing. Choice is always great.

And thanks! I have kept at it and found Book 2 much more liberating in terms of deciding what you want to do than Book 1.

[leshpar]

Eschalon wouldn't be half as fun if it weren't for the well written text the game has. Seriously, it makes about half the game. How well written everything is completely draws me into the game. That's what makes this style of RPG good. Without the large amount of text to read it wouldn't be anywhere near as engrossing. In fact I'd have to say it might be downright boring. Sure the gameplay and customization would still be awesome, but without a good story to compliment it the games wouldn't be as epic, and that can't be done without the amount of text they have.

Go back and play any good JRPG from the 80s or 90s and you'll see what I mean. Heck, everyone knows of Final Fantasy 7, that game has. . .I think 4 full books worth of text in it? I don't remember the exact figures, but that game wouldn't be anywhere near as famous if it didn't have that amount of text in it.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

[Knightofhopex]

Offering a CHOICE as to whether or not to play through the content reading slowly and meticulously or skimming or simply spending more time exploring and less time messing with the plot lets people choose what THEY enjoy most about the game and focus on it.

Just because you happen to like the game for it's writing and don't mind the pace doesn't mean someone else doesn't enjoy something else about the game, like exploring and grinding, much more. Also, offering a choice means more people can enjoy the game more.

How is this not a win-win? Can I get some Amor for my Logos here? lol

[leshpar]

I understand your point of view and I realize you think choice in this matter is a good thing.

I have to respectfully disagree. Choice in this instance is not a good thing. The developers worked hard on their story, and it shows. They really put a lot of feeling and hard work into it. To give people the choice to skip that would be a huge slap in the face to them imho. Now maybe it could be a choice to unlock such a thing AFTER you've beaten the game once. That I'd be ok with, but not for someone's first time through. In my oppinion players should be explosed to everything the developers took the time to put into their game(s).

Think about it from an artists point of view. If you take the time to draw and paint an amazing picture that took you over 40 hours to finish making. . .would you want people to only look at a percentage of it or would you want people to see the whole thing?

I'd wanna see the whole thing, because I know how much work you put into that masterpiece.

Edit: and before we get into speculations here: yes, video games are art. That's part of the point.

[Knightofhopex]

This is all respectful descent, of course. Goes without saying.

And I'd leave you with this single point: Much more successful entities in this industry think you're wrong. Bethesda would be the best example. Abilities within Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all allow you to alter the pace at which you play the game. And they've not just allowed but encouraged a modding community to alter everything from the pace at which their games can be played all the way up to the actual character models, skins and resolution of the environments.

SMART and SUCCESSFUL game makers let their players choose the experience they want to have with their content. And I think they're probably sold just a *few* more games than you have... So, yeah.

Does that kind of make it clear what I'm getting at?

Edit: The major one that doesn't is Nintendo, but adult PC fantasy gamers are not their target market. Children 8 to 12 are their target market. lol

[Knightofhopex]

You want a game speed slider for Book III so you can finish the game faster?

Well, not just that. Also so I can try more builds and do more stuff!

I've been playing Book II for about 21 hours now and I'm planning on starting over because there's a couple of skills I buggered I would rather have ranked up sooner. And there are other builds besides the one I'm using right now I'd like to try.

If anything, it's major replay value knowing that you can do something different if you decide you want to without it taking more than 5 or 10 hours to build up a new character. Speed through content is also speed TO content, and it's the mid and late game strategies that it's fun to tinker with.

For example, I've played through Morrowind.... Let's see, 4 or 5 times? And I've spent about 500 hours on it just goofing off and exploring. Oblivion and Skyrim I've only played through once each because they take much longer to accomplish anything in. I've spent about 40 hours or so playing each. It's just more fun when it doesn't take as long to try things.

[leshpar]

I still can't agree with you. To me its NOT fun to get instant gratification. I want to work for what I get in a game. This is why I've really started to lose interest in most MMOs because they've gone from the model of working for hours and hours for what you want to practically handing rewards out for little effort. But then I'm an old school gamer.

As for a reply to your other post: I can't respectfully say what I need to say, but please lay off the insults and insinuations. This is supposed to be an adult debate, all that matters is oppinions and why, not who sold games. I guarantee you haven't sold any either, and that doesn't matter. I only care about your oppinion on the subject and why you feel that way.

[Knightofhopex]

The more content you can enjoy and the more often, the better. Even if you don't agree, that shouldn't be prohibitive of my choice to do what's most fun for me. I've already demonstrated that it works successfully and famously in this industry.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Calm down, folks. It's just a game. Everyone's opinions are important to us, and everyone here needs to respect each others.

[Lord_P]

This is the first real argument in these forums.

[leshpar]

I always piss people off. Don't really know how, but I manage somehow. Sorry for the trouble.

[Knightofhopex]

I'm sorry that Leshpar got upset by that, and it certainly wasn't my intention to hurt their feelings.

However, that's still a perfectly valid statement. Reminding people that someone knows more about a thing than someone else does and has been able to do X Y or Z because they disagree with the with the other person is a classical method of argument, dating all the way back to the Acropolis in Athens.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

It's called a Call to Authority, yes, but there's always a question of how much the authority named is an authority in the specific case, and the form of the call in this case did also read a bit like an ad hominem.

The real point is that there is a limit to how much of the content of any game can be made optional without it becoming a completely different game and wasting the developers time trying to balance each approach. That's when the real option is to either play the game as the developer intended or find a different game.