I'd agree with Loriac and BW. But I'd clarify that this game is not so easy as to be boring and, in fact, if you choose to stick to a certain role palying archtype (e.g. Ranger or Rogue), it can be quite challenging in a fun way.
I, for one, have never judged games by whether you can beat it easily. That's rather pointless, IMHO. It's just a game, afterall. If, however, there's either no challenge or too much challenge no matter what you do, than that, I think, can be objectively considered a design flaw. Thankfully, Eschalon does not suffer from that particular problem.
just how balanced and bug free is the game?
I think the game becomes harder if you do not use the save/load trick that a lot of people uses. I for example do not save and load if I get a serious disease get cursed, or the acid grub destroys my super good armor... which becomes very expensive! and makes the game harder... The exception was when I got sick and cursed and my strengh was down to 2.... I would have to drop all my items, and lose them since there wasn't a single chest nearby and I couldn't walk... even quest items.
![Officer [Bronze Rank]](./images/ranks/officer1.png "Officer [Bronze Rank]")
I agree w/them as well. I do have to say, though, that the way it is designed makes it really pointless to to have different classes. I say this because all you get is one free skill. Well every class gets one free skill so you are gaining nothing unique. I could take Ranger and then spend all my other points on building a rogue character. I could choose Healer and then build a tank fighter. I may suggest for future versions that either you just give the player 3 more skill points and forget the classes or give the classes something unique to make them work taking. An option would be make magic and alchemy skills less expensive for mages/healers, rogue skills less expensive for rogues, and fighting/armor skills less expensive for warriror/ranger types. Make the classes actually mean more than just a name.
The Quickest way to a man's heart is thru his back.
Class has 3 effects:Necromis wrote:I say this because all you get is one free skill.
- Starting bonus skill (Swords, Bows, Pick Locks, Elemental, Divination)
- HP/MP bonus per level (+1 HP/-1 MP per level for the 'physical' classes, +1 MP/-1 HP for the 'magical' classes)
- Which attribute provides the secondary MP gain per level (Wisdom for Healers, Intelligence for everyone else)
QFTJosia wrote:the classes just add a little bit of spice and early character definition.
If people understood this, we'd have far less of the 'is Eschalon balanced for rogues / fighters / mages' threads going on. Its a single player game where, if you choose to 'specialise', you're actually playing the game in a harder mode as you are choosing not to use the full range of options available to you.
Loriac I am not disagreeing with you. However, it seems to make having classes pointless even if just flavor. After all you could simply split it into warrior and spellcaster classes. From there pick your own skills to make your desired class build. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and will be replaying it over and over with different class builds. I just am seeing it in its current form to be a pointless part of the game. I could pick warrior and build a thief. I could pick Healer and build a Warrior. I am just feeling that to actually have class distinctions should also come with class builds. In line with what I posted previously.
The Quickest way to a man's heart is thru his back.
I understand your point. However, this game is basically 'classless', and a character build is really more about the mix of skills you choose. It could be changed to have class dependent skills (e.g. maybe like the class skills / cross-class skills / unusable skills as in 3E D&D) however, that is not how it has been set up currently.Necromis wrote:Loriac I am not disagreeing with you. However, it seems to make having classes pointless even if just flavor. After all you could simply split it into warrior and spellcaster classes. From there pick your own skills to make your desired class build. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and will be replaying it over and over with different class builds. I just am seeing it in its current form to be a pointless part of the game. I could pick warrior and build a thief. I could pick Healer and build a Warrior. I am just feeling that to actually have class distinctions should also come with class builds. In line with what I posted previously.
I guess how you view this depends on whether your early experiences of rpgs were based around rpgs like D&D (which was class based) vs. rpgs like GURPS (which was skill based). 3E D&D is actually a hybrid of classes and skills, and it looks like 4E may be even further down the road of skills as opposed to classes, perhaps because thats how the market is moving.
I'd rather it wasn't religiously one or the other. We have enough of those. I like the idea of starting out with a flavor but not being overly restricted on where I go from there. I wouldn't mind tinkering with it a bit to make the flavor last a little longer, if you will, but I think it would take some uniqueness away from Eschalon to just ape existing systems entirely.
I honestly think there are just a couple of minor changes that need to be made to balance this out better for the classes but also keep it with the classless ability, too. First, catagorize skills into three sets, rogue, warrior, mage. Next increase the cost to buy skills outside of your classes skill catagories. Ranger would get to select from both warrior and rogue. Bump up the skill points handed out at start up and level up, but just enough to balance out the cost to a realistic level. Address the damage done for spells either by adding damage per level or per Int/Wis point value, similar to melee damage. Lastly give rogue an increased crit/damage factor while fighting hidden in shadows.
I doubt BW could do anything about or like this in Book I, but it is possible to make these corrections in II. This lets you still pick any skill, but rewards you for staying closer to your designed role.
I doubt BW could do anything about or like this in Book I, but it is possible to make these corrections in II. This lets you still pick any skill, but rewards you for staying closer to your designed role.
The Quickest way to a man's heart is thru his back.
I'd sort of agree with that, but if you did have 'enforced classes' then mages would need to be more dangerous/damaging (without picking up a bow or sword) and warriors need to heal faster (without resorting to cleric spells). It plays fine like it is, but you always wind up with a cleric/fighter type person (at least I always seem to).Necromis wrote:that actually is my point, and only problem with the game. That it has classes but is classless. It should be one or the other if you get my drift.