Quest unfulfillable?

GSV3MiaC · Post by **GSV3MiaC** » November 29th, 2007, 8:36 pm

Hey, you have LOADS of storage space. Every chest in the game in fact .. not a single thief in the whole world (except you and me). You can put three hulking great gems in an open (or even smashed) barrel, in the middle of town, and they'll still be there a weeks next Tuesday.

Myrdin T Sasnak · Post by **Myrdin T Sasnak** » December 17th, 2007, 2:37 pm

I agree with the philosophy of allowing us to sell the minor quest items, or to allow us to kill someone that may be linked to a minor quest... but it would also be nice to allow us to delete a quest from our questbook if we so choose - I killed the cemetary fellow who wanted the larvae because he attacked me after I raided a chest or something. Now I am constantly reminded of this mistake whenever I open up the quest log.

I really enjoy your game, btw. It's great to have some old school RPG time again!

realmzmaster · Post by **realmzmaster** » December 17th, 2007, 6:25 pm

The reason the cemetary fellow attack you is because he saw you committing a crime. If you went into the room with the chest and drawer within his line of sight he will attack. There is a way to enter the room and loot the chest and drawer outside of his line of sight. The scrolling text will say he hears a crime being committed, but it will not say he sees a crime being committed. If he sees a crime being committed he attacks.

Myrdin T Sasnak · Post by **Myrdin T Sasnak** » December 18th, 2007, 7:05 am

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: Thanks, but I was mainly talking about the quest log

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I realized that after I stole his chest. For some reason, I zoned out and didn't really think that stuff was his anyway when I raided it since I was in a 'dungeon' area and not a town. It really amounted to me making several mistakes... 1) a very long time since my last save (rpg rule 1 is save frequently) 2) didn't know chest was his 3) did not know if running away and coming back later would have made him friendly again (would it?) Anyway, I hadn't come across any of the larvae that he wanted and did not want to go back to my last save losing a lot of work so that all added up to one dead quest npc. Yes, I found the larvae later...

My previous post was mainly to just ask for enhancements for the quest log and explain why I thought it would be helpful.

It would be nice if:
...one could view the completed quests.
...let player mark a quest in some way that hides an accepted quest.
...view all known quests at once seeing their status (refused, accepted and incomplete, accepted and complete, accepted and abandoned (hidden).
_________________

Feidb · Post by **Feidb** » December 18th, 2007, 2:10 pm

I don't mind losing minor quest items, but it would be nice to be able to get them back eventually. Apparently, I found and sold that gold ring, though I can't remember for sure, so I have to put up with that quest on the list.

However, when it comes to a major quest item, there's nothing like a major game killer than losing a critical item and coming to a dead stop in the main progress of the game. That happened to me in M&M IX the last time I played it. I haven't messed with it since.

I was also unaware that I could store stuff in the various chests around the world. I knew about placing special items in those certain chests, but I just assumed the other chests would suck up my items if I came back for them later. Guess it doesn't matter now as I'm just starting in the Goblin citadel and that is close to the end of the game, right?

realmzmaster · Post by **realmzmaster** » December 19th, 2007, 12:37 am

Unfortunately, running away and coming back will not make him any friendlier. He still will attack you on sight. The other characters will react as they did before unless they saw you committing a crime. Be very careful about committing crimes in Blackwater. The guards will get hostile and they know how to deal with criminals. Forget about committing a crime in the repository. The punishment is swift and brutal.

Halabec · Post by **Halabec** » December 25th, 2007, 12:43 am

I sold this ring after I had the quest accidentally. Now I am unable to finish the quest, which kind of irritates me, especially since the quest journal doesn't seem to be able to handle more than 2 pages and my quests are overrunning the second page.

I'm not understanding the allusion to realism...

If I want to pawn a bunch of items in real-life, it isn't as easy as clicking the item and hitting the 'Y' button. I'd have to go to a pawn shop with items in tow, tick them off to the pawn guy, and give them to him.

At the very least, there should be some equation to that extra barrier of selling, such as "Are you sure you want to sell this?"

Great game overall, but if what I'm saying doesn't jive, then there should be some other way of completing it. Even an option to say "Yeah, I saw the ring, I pawned it. Good luck lady!"

Zoggles · Post by **Zoggles** » December 26th, 2007, 9:12 pm

"Yeah, I saw the ring, I pawned it. Good luck lady!"

Hah.. that's a great idea.. though you'ld also maybe need to add in another option for the 'item destroyed' possibility "hmm.. I did find one like that.. but it seems to have fallen out of my pocket somewhere along my travels".

There are two sides to every coin. Having an item looking no different from any other and later finding out it was a quest item - can be annoying.. but then again, so can finding a 'quest item' (marked as such) and then never finding the quest it is for. Holding it in your inventory all game with never a clue what it is for.. especially if you have already killed one of the NPCs involved so the quest doesn't ever become available to you. Annoyances on both sides.

My prefered solution would only be to have major quest items (story breaking items) unsellable and identifiable by the player as 'quest items'.

As for the minor quest items I much prefer that they are sellable and not visibly marked any differently than normal items. However they could be 'flagged' by the game (invisibly to the player) as quest items so that at least if sold, they are always available for re-purchase from the same shop - even after the 4 day reset or the reset occuring if the NPC runs too low on money. These items could then be immune from the 'clearing an NPCs stock' thus remaining there when it is re-populated.

Or, perhaps they don't re-appear in the 'sellable goods' but instead, the NPC has kept that quest item back and put it in a chest next to him.. meaning that if you really want any sold quest items back.. you're going to either have to fight him for them or perhaps have some other dialog with him... 'Hey, do you remember that cheap looking gold coloured little ring I sold to you last week with something written on the side? I don't suppose you still have it do you?' (of course.. he might chose to only sell it back at several times what it is worth at this point...)

These minor quest items are not mission criticle, but for some players have a need for 'cleaning up all those small loose ends' and finishing a game with an empty quest list etc. It provides a better sense of finality and completion.

On the issue of 'banking' I don't think a 'bank' as such is necessary.. but it would be nice to have somewhere that is close to one of the quick travel points, with several chests or drawers in so that items can be stored (with some semblence of order and categorisation) without having to trek all over the place trying to remember which chest you put that old key in.

Decent storage is particularly important for the frailer characters who can't carry so much.

8 slots in a chest or drawer is enough that the current 'loot window' would not need to be overhauled, but there are never enough 8-slot storage areas in any one place.

As for the comment about 'what is the fun of a game if you cannot lose', I think a game can be just as fun if it is impossible to actually 'lose' as one that is difficult to 'win'. The 'winning' and 'losing' are merely results. The 'fun' is the process of getting to the result. 'losing' detracts from 'fun' because it becomes an annoyance of having to reload, and repeat chunks of the game.

I'm not saying all games should be impossible to lose - just that a game which is 'impossible to lose' does not automatically become 'unfun'. It can even still be very challenging.

A jigsaw (in essence) is impossible to lose (unless there is a piece missing) : the difficulty of the jigsaw is in the level of detail of the picture on it, and the number / shapes of the pieces.

-Z-

steelcaress · Post by **steelcaress** » January 1st, 2008, 10:06 am

My prefered solution would only be to have major quest items (story breaking items) unsellable and identifiable by the player as 'quest items'.

As for the minor quest items I much prefer that they are sellable and not visibly marked any differently than normal items. However they could be 'flagged' by the game (invisibly to the player) as quest items so that at least if sold, they are always available for re-purchase from the same shop...

Those are great ideas! Because there was a game (Divine Divinity) where you could sell all items, even quest items. That was harsh when they turned out to be the item you needed to complete a quest and missed out on the experience because of it.