Constructive criticism after finishing game [spoilers]

[Javitson]

Having finished the game recently, I thought I would share my thoughts (and questions) on the game. I quite enjoyed the game, and am looking forward to Book II. That said, this post is mostly going to focus on (hopefully) constructive criticism and a little bug reporting, because I like what you’ve done and would love to see it get even better.

For reference, I played a character with a focus on armor, bludgeoning weapons, and combat support spellcasting from both Divine and Elemental schools. I played with v1.04.

GAME MECHANICS

Stats
Overall, I liked the stat system, particularly how it complimented some of the skills. There are two aspects of the system that confuse me, though. The first is Mana Points. Based on the description, it seems like increases to these are affected by Intelligence, Wisdom, and Perception. It’s a little hard to see exactly what effect these have, so making the “formula” by which these attributes affect MP gain transparent would be nice.

The second quibble of mine is with Speed. As it is currently implemented, Speed is the weakest stat in the game (“weakest” in the sense that it provides the least benefit when increased). According to its description, Speed increased damage dealt and lowers base Armor Class (speaking of which, “lowers”? I’m pretty sure the game isn’t using the THAC0 system here…. I’ll just assume you meant “raises”), which in and of itself makes sense. The problem is with its balance with other stats. If I want to increase damage, I’ll put a point into Strength, and I get the added benefit of a higher maximum encumbrance. If I want to raise my Armor Class, I’ll put a point into Dexterity, and I get the added benefit of a higher ToHit rating. This does not mean that Speed should be removed, but instead repurposed. Imagine that Speed instead grants combat advantage, in the following manner – If an opponent and I have roughly the same speed (say within a range of +- 3), we each make a single action. If I have a Speed 3 or greater than that of my opponent, I get to make two actions to his one, sort of a natural “Haste” (in fact, you could then change the “Haste” spell to grant a boost to the Speed stat), and vice versa. If there are enemies around of differing speeds, then the ones that are comparable to me get one action to my one action, those lower than me get one action for every two of my actions, etc. I think this would go a long way to taking Speed from being the only “dump stat” to being just as viable as the rest, and also make combat more tactical for the player, as he can now outrun slower enemies, allowing him time to cast spells, use ranged attacks at greater than point blank range, etc.

In general, it would be a great improvement if I could have my “Character” page open while leveling up, allowing me to see how each stat improvement will affect my combat stats, resistances, etc. Yes, I can always save, level up, check the character page, and then load if I don’t like the result, but this is tedious, and the other method would provide a lot more polish and user friendliness.

Skills
There is much to like about skills, but also quite a bit not to like. On the positive side, I like how skills are “purchased”, it feels balanced and rewards careful planning, and the impact of the skills on gameplay cannot be denied.

That said, it seems like some skills are unnecessary, underpowered, or “broken” in a mechanics sense. Let’s start with “unnecessary”. Lore is a skill I found completely useless, because there is a spell of the same name which does the same thing, only better in every way. Why better? Because every skill point put into Divination yields countless other benefits in addition to improving the power of the Lore spell, while points put into the Lore skill do not have other benefits. “What about players who want to play without magic?” I hear you ask. Well and good, but that’s what the Mercantile skill is for. Again, it provides countless other benefits to the player with each additional skill point in addition to making identification of items cheaper. I can’t imagine spending a skill point on Lore under almost any circumstances.

Next up, skills that I feel are “underpowered”
First, “Spot Hidden”. Now, I may be completely off-base with this one, because I did not raise my Spot Hidden skill very high, but it seems to me that there are only two locations in the game that Spot Hidden is made to work with – The cave that is full of bees, in which there are many precious gems, and the Tangletree Ossuary, in which various items are found in the walls full of skeletal corpses. Other places that should have required Spot Hidden – like the secret wall in the graveyard where “Secrets of Transference Circuits” is found, or the hidden back entrance to Tangletree in the Gloomful Oubliette – are displayed right there on screen so it’s obvious where to go. Now, if Spot Hidden allowed me to occasionally find an apple on a tree, a berry on a bush, the occasional arrow on the ground, or to turn more of the non-interactive chests, broken barrels, corpses, etc. into objects I could search, that would be great. Also, if it was the skill that showed traps, and Skullduggery was the ability to disarm them, or even if Spot Hidden just gave a bonus to spotting traps with Skullduggery, that would go a long way. As it stands, it’s simply not worth it to buy points in Spot Hidden.

While we’re at it, Skullduggery. It was a useful skill, just not… THAT useful. If there had been more traps (particularly traps that completely barred passage), or better yet, the ability to set traps, it would be a lot better.

Short-bladed Weapons – So, there’s a class of weapons with no trainers, no books, and lower attack power than most other weapons. So, they must be poisoned (don’t even start with that hive queen stinger), or hit twice, or have a better ToHit, or have an extra bonus from Dexterity, or do something else crazy, like work as impromptu lockpicks, right? Right?

Cartography – So, after level 7 or so, all I get is locations of chest, doors, and NPCs/enemies? Thanks, but I generally open all the chests and doors anyway, enemies tend to run at me, so mapping them isn’t all that helpful, and NPCs are pretty much always right where you left them (though I swear, not only the priest, but the magick guild guy in Blackwater got stuck inside a building that was not their own – for the rest of the game).

Pretty much all armor skills, particularly shields, are very underpowered. Once you have Level 1 in an armor skill, you can wear any armor, no matter how heavy, and receive the full Armor Class benefits with no ToHit penalties. The only thing that increases is Damage Reduction, and it creeps up oh-so-slowly, whereas if you spend those points in, say, Divination/Elemental and throw up Nimbleness, Stoneskin, and Chameleon at almost any level, you’re basically invulnerable (to the point that during the battle with the Chancellor’s guards, they had 2% to hit me in full light). Now, why do I say “particularly shields”? Well, I got me a nice Adamantine Great Shield, and plus-three’d that sucker, for a total bonus of 8 to my Armor Class. That was at Level 1 Shield skill. Next level, I decided to up that skill by the full 3 points, to Level 4 skill. There was no change to any stat, not even damage reduction. I was rather disappointed, loaded my game to spend those level-up points on something else, and never looked back.

Finally, there is one skill that is “broken” from a mechanics standpoint. Alchemy. Holy moly, it’s so unbelievably overpowered I can’t believe it made it through testing. Now, I can already hear people complaining about the cost of making Mana Potions and Invisibility III, etc. I hear you; I’ve felt your pain, but hear me out as I tell a little story. For about 2/3 of the game, I was almost always poor. Every gold piece went towards more training, better skills, arrows, maybe a new piece of armor if I was incredibly lucky. This was great, from a gameplay perspective – limited resources really made me think about each purchase (for the record, I never save/reloaded to get better drops or items in chests – it just never occurred to me to metagame the system that way). Until one day, when I had managed to find two Brewmaster’s Rings. Well, with both rings, I could bring my Alchemy skill up to 15. So, I decided to see what that would get me, starting with a nice health potion. I bought a sulfur, a willow sap, and a flask, and bam! Healing Elixir III. Then, I looked at its value. 100! I went back to the shop, and sold that potion back to the store for more than what it cost me to create. And everything changed. Even without any Mercantile skill at all, I could make a 10 gold profit off of Healing Elixirs. I had a Mercantile skill of 1, and an Amulet of the Master Merchant, for a total of +3. I was pulling in 25 gold profit per bottle. Excited, I then went through every possible potion in the game, and found the Holy Grail. Potion of Cure Greater Disease. Costing 158 (no Mercantile skill) for components, it could be sold for 200. With 4 Mercantile skill, I was pulling in 94 gold in profits. Now, there are always 7 flasks and at least 3 belladonnas, charcoals, willow saps, and sulfurs per week. For those of you keeping track, with my 4 Mercantile skill, that’s 357 gold profit from thin air, every week, guaranteed (a tiny, tiny bit more if I wanted to make Demon Oil III, but the margins were too slim). Finally, just in the closing hours of gameplay came the final breakthrough. I could buy ectoplasm, spider silk, serpent venom, and mercury, apply liberally to any found weapons and armor, and make profits of 300-400 gold per item, which is a lot when you start finding things made of Adamantine. I had so much money that basically everything I owned was made of (alchemically enhanced) adamantine, every skill that could be trained was, and I had rings, cloaks, and amulets for every possible situation the game could throw at me. That’s when I discovered that I could buy an arrow for 1 gold and enhance it to be worth 801 gold (it should be noted, for game balance purposes, that an “Assassin’s Arrow” with the same stats is, shall we say, substantially cheaper than 801 gold). It’s a good thing I beat the game when I did, or I could have just bought all of Thaermore outright and rolled up to the Goblin Citadel with a private army of Adamantine-clad spell-warriors. So the cost of buying the components for all the “expensive” Alchemy potions? Don’t worry about it.

Spells
Spells made this game for me. Without them, I’d just be a thug with a hammer, but with them, I’m like a thug on steroids AND speed with a flaming magical hammer. Joking aside, spells added a huge amount of tactical improvement to this game – Need a light? Throw those torches and that 5 lb. (!) lantern away – Gravedigger’s Flame, maybe Cat’s Eyes, or Predator Sight for pure combat. Tired of walking? Bamf! You’re there! Caught a hideous disease and can’t even move under the weight of your armor? Ogre’s Strength. Or, you know, Cure Disease. That said, there are a few spells that bugged or confused me.

Dehex – This spell was far too difficult to use. You needed a really, really high level of Divination to make this at all worth it – I could only cast Level 1 Dehex at my skill level, and not once was I ever cursed and able to remove it myself. 1000 gold is a lot of gold, even with my Alchemy going. Maybe they could scale the cost to the difficulty of removal or something? The real problem was that there weren’t a whole lot of other benefits to leveling Divination up high enough to make this viable (for me, anyway – I never used damage-dealing spells, as they’re too costly – just buff spells, which are all Tier 1 and 2 spells, not Tier 3).

Portal – A great spell, hampered by being far too skill-costly to really use, much in the same way as Dehex.

Entangle, Sonic Blast, Poison Spray, Dancing Lights – pretty much any spell that affected enemies did not work for me. Period. Not once was an enemy ever entangled or sonic blasted, even when casting at decently high levels (like 4-ish). It’s a little disappointing, since the spells sound great in concept, but every time the enemy saved or I needed a higher casting level. Buffs work 100% of the time, so I pretty much switched over to them (Note: I’m willing to bet that Turn Undead is much the same, though I never tried it).

Any Damage Spell – Too costly, not enough oomph. For 1 gold, I can get an arrow, which, by the end of the game and the appropriate buffs, hits with 98% accuracy for about 20-30 damage. Compare with a decent spell – anywhere from 12 to 30+ MP for a similar level of damage and nowhere even close to the same probability of hitting, as there are no “buffs” for magic casting. They’re both ranged attacks, but one is far superior. (Exception: Fire Dart – it can blow up them powderkegs real good, not to mention trigger levers).

Reveal Map – A higher cartography skill for 10 rounds/level. Really. You’re pretty much always casting that thing if you’re actually trying to map something, and if you’re boosting your level to maximum, the differences aren’t all that stellar (see above).

Air Shield – This is the single most broken spell in the entire game. Once you have air shield, all those fungal slimes and goblin archers are completely powerless. You choose the time and place of melee combat, or you can just gun them down with impunity – nothing makes it through the air shield.

Element Armor – There are precisely two things in the entire game that can actually deal elemental damage to the player (assuming you don’t Demon Oil yourself somehow), and one of them is the final boss (the other being Hellfire traps or that Demon statue in the Goblin Citadel). I’m pretty sure there isn’t even a source of electricity damage in the whole game, despite it being mentioned by name in the Element Armor description. That said, Element Armor really works in those two cases.

Finally, there are some spells I’d like to see – anything that can offer increased protection against Poison, Disease, and especially Magic – you’d think a good wizard could defend himself against other wizards.

Combat
Combat in the game was handled quite well, with the few mechanics exceptions already noted (c’mon, Speed, you can be useful), and a few bugs/exploits I’ll cover later. I do have a few complaints, starting with how silly it looks and feels running from a set of enemies across an entire map because I’m out of HP/MP/Spells/Potions. It would be nice if they eventually got sick of chasing you and returned to where you found them, rather than the incredibly cheap feeling of zoning them, buffing up, walking back (possibly weeks and weeks of in-game time later), and finding them still waiting exactly where you left them, ready to be attacked.

Also, having different enemy types ambush you depending on where you were camping would be nice. Once you hit the Taurax, there are no other ambushing enemies, and the Taurax don’t have any drops, so that’s kind of annoying too.

Finally, I think it would be nice if enemies showed a little common sense. If I march up to a Goblin Archer, it should either try to back up, or pull out a knife and hit me, not keep trying to make point blank shots. Same thing with Gramuk – if your one-note cold spell isn’t dealing me damage, try a different spell, or buff yourself, or something. I mean, this is the end boss, the goblin orchestrating the takeover of an entire region and controlling the chancellor’s mind inside his own tower, not to mention working with high-level teleportation magic (and maybe daemon-summoning or something). It seems like he should know more than one spell.

STORY/SETTING

Location
The setting was great, it all felt like it fit well together. The books of “background”, while few, were good flavor. You really got the feeling of a land undergoing some terrible times – corpses everywhere, stuff smashed, etc. The makeshift Bordertown in particular was good. My one complaint is that it needed a touch more realism in the food department. So, trade is basically cut off, the Chancellor locked everything down, and the gate to Crakamir is locked. In the entire game, I think there was one small farm plot in Blackwater, and no one was a farmer. Now, it’s a small and insignificant quibble, but how are these people getting by? I mean, I guess the guys in Bordertown can fish (and one of them even has a boat), and there are (otherwise invisible) apples on trees, but that’s really not going to cut it. Just a suggestion for the layout (or a nice NPC explanation) in Book II.

NPCs
Also, well done with these guys; they definitely helped the mood. People like Mary and Penelope have those little quests that really show what a terrible time people are having. I also really liked the idea of the guy who owned the Baron’s Thicket – nice setup he had there, and a hunting lodge. Classy. Again, a single complaint – there’s that corpse in a house in the middle of some woods, and the sign on the wall says “Home Sweet Home”. I mean, can you get any more cliché? It just seems like that may have pushed things over the top from believable to ridiculous.

Plot
Thin as it was, the plot helped keep things together and moving, though the advertised option to “go ahead and not follow the plot” really didn’t work out. No matter what, the game will end shortly after you talk to Gramuk, no matter what happens to the Crux of Ages (or the Chancellor). No matter how you get there, you still need the 4 goblin keys, which at the least forces you to know at least some of the overarching plot, even if you’re trying not to follow it. Still, I liked it.

The Goblin Menace
So, the goblins. Yes, they’re evil and want all of Thaermore and etc. But where did they come from? “The Barrens of Crakamir” I hear you say. Well, yeah, but where? On the left, there are Giants, and they hate Goblins. On the right is the Desert Outpost, and top is the gate, controlled by good ole’ humans. Below that is said to be a human city which sends trade caravans. So the goblins are basically living in a wasteland made entirely of sand, surrounded by enemies. That means they have to somehow find enough to eat or grow their own food in a desert until they are strong enough to attack – not happening. Even allowing for that, how did they build that Citadel? I mean, it’s HUGE! It’s also really well made – just look at the outer wall! You expect me to believe that the same goblins who can’t even keep fresh water going (the only two wells in the game that goblins are near are full of disease, including the one in the Citadel) managed to build that thing? Out of what? Sand? And nobody noticed?

Putting that aside, let’s talk the final battle against Gramuk. It was kind of a let-down, and not only because Gramuk himself was a total push-over. Fine, he’s not supposed to be a combat god, but a spellcaster and leader. It’s more because of his attitude. He stands there, talking to you like you are nothing to him. A mere speck which attracts his attention, for a brief moment, because you happen to possess the Crux of Ages. He doesn’t have time for you, and you are only suffered to be there because he allowed it. OK, I get it, he’s awesome AND he has something up his sleeve. And that something is… 4 spiders. 4. Spiders. Oh, yeah, and he’s got a cold attack. Well now, I cast Element Armor, and now I have 107% Elements resistance. That was easy. If he was so certain of victory, I would’ve liked to see something that really made it seem possible he might win. Here’s how it should have gone down:

You enter the room, and are immediately stopped by the conversation box (none of this walking right up to him and then talking). Assuming the conversation leads to combat, here’s the setup: Gramuk is on top of a raised area with two staircases on either side of it. Say it’s 5 squares wide by 3 long. 5 goblin archers (or maybe 4 and a Dimension Eye) are arrayed along the top with a clear line of fire to you. At the staircases and next to Gramuk are Taurax, for a total of 4 of the minotaur steroid-freaks. The room is made in such a way that there is only a 1 tile wide approach to either staircase, and you can’t see the Taurax there to shoot at them so you have to walk up to them. Each approach to the staircase is also trapped. All the troops I’ve mentioned so far are hard coded not to move, but only to shoot at you (if they can) or wait for your approach. Gramuk summons his 4 spiders, which use standard attack patterns. Every turn, Gramuk does one of the following: 1) Summons another spider, or maybe calls for assistance and a Goblin Hacker shows up 2) Buffs himself or one of his allies that can currently hit or be hit by you 3) Heals a wounded ally 4) Attacks you with a spell of a random element, or even Magic, since there is only one thing in the entire game that protects against magic (Greater Protection potion). That would have made the battle sufficiently difficult, but not too hard (depending on whether you kept the Dimension Eye – those things are terrifyingly strong, since they have Magic attacks), and more importantly, made it seem that Gramuk really was sure of his victory.

BUGS/EXPLOITS/OTHER

Possible Bugs
-When beginning to camp during the day and interrupted by enemies at night, if I do not move but instead buff/fire arrows/etc., the enemies can hit me as if I was not concealed by darkness. Moving seems to fix this. The reverse is also true, so enemies will be trying to hit me while I am “heavily concealed by darkness” in broad daylight.

-So, I've been diseased and can't carry all my equipment. I throw some stuff out, but I'm still over. Then I realize I'm carrying like 14 torches. I can't drop them, so I stand there, torch lit, hitting spacebar until it burns out. My Encumbrance doesn't change. I try again. Still nothing. Then I drop some other item weighing 0.1 lbs, and 0.5 lbs fall off of me. Apparently, the lost weight of burned-out torches is not recalculated to your Encumbrance until you drop something else. In that limited circumstance, quite annoying.

Exploits I’ve Noticed
-The Alchemy thing already described, if it wasn’t your intention to turn me into a money-generating maelstrom.

-Walking on the diagonal is a faster animation then walking on the cardinal directions. When in combat, I can move, say, up and then immediately up-right, and my enemy will only have moved one square. If I take these actions slowly, however, the enemy moves twice, just as I do. This allows me to get away from enemies and shoot them/buff/etc. when I probably shouldn’t be able to. It’s even worse with Acid Grubbs – you can move in any direction and outrun them so hard it’s ridiculous.

-The ability to undergo a complete armor and weapon change in the midst of combat is quite the impressive feat (and fairly handy) but it feels kind of cheap. I mean, I've got my nice armor setup, two Rings of the Assassin, a Priest's Cloak and a Bonesplitter's Charm. If the battle goes south, though, bam! I'm wearing a Cloak of Shadows and two Rings of Shadow, plus the Zen Amulet - now I can hide in shadows no problem and regenerate mana. Next up: I put on 2 Rings of the Fire Master and make myself invisible for a while, then walk through the lighted area to another room. What's odd is that if I try and open a chest, the enemies get to move, and for each thing I remove from the chest, they get to move again - why not have the same thing happen for equipment changes - especially since you have the somatic Strength requirement. As it stands, I just remove my hammer and shield, cast what I want, and put them back on. It's an annoyance, not a serious gameplay mechanic.

Miscellaneous
-So, the goblins are keeping all these spiders in their Citadel, for what purpose (beyond defense) I’m not sure, but it was interesting to try and figure out what they would use all that silk for. My complaint here is that I couldn’t harvest anything from the eggs, like I could in Shadowmirk. Why not, or is this one of those “Spot Hidden” things I missed?

As harsh as some of that may have been, I want to reiterate that I really did enjoy playing (and occasionally breaking) this game. Hopefully, some of this criticism is found to be useful, and maybe even makes its way into Book II. Comments are welcome, I’d like to know what people think about my… really, really long post, now that I go and look at it. Sorry about that.

EDIT: I mistakenly though I was playing on an older version, but a check revealed it was, in fact, v1.04

[BasiliskWrangler]

Nice post, Javitson. We'll pick it apart and apply what we can towards making Book II better.

BTW, we never take offense to harsh or constructive criticisms...creating an RPG from scratch is not an easy task and we never assumed we'd get it perfect on our first effort. Posts like your only go to make the next game better.

Thanks!

[ben]

One annoyance: at least on my mac laptop, I couldn't attack peaceful characters with spells. I would hold down shift, ctrl, and click the target, and get the message that I had to hold down left-shift to attack them... well, right, that's what I was doing.

[The Noid]

I've just finished my first playthrough and I loved it. But I do agree with all of these points.

Especially the speed thing. You can out-stroll a raptor... While casually walking away a raptor is unable to catch up to you and attack! That's just wrong... A raptor should be able to move at least 3 times as fast as a level 1 you. As it is now, everything moves at the same speed, except acid grubs.

[toothpix]

I just finished the game and I pretty much agree with everything Javitson said.

I was playing a 'dumb' fighter, strength and endurance, no magic (my favourite build in RPGs:) ).. The game was quite hard till I got to lvl 6 or 8 (didn't get lucky with loot), but then with Warlord's Gauntlets, imbued armor and Assassin's rings it became a walk in the park.



I didn't use any magic but on the combat side of things attack/armor needs to be heavily reworked, my 50 points in Dodge were a waste because hardly anything could hit me anyway..

And I could have done well without putting extra points into weapon skill either because of the bonuses from the items.. And I didn't even use magic or potion buffs..

[The Noid]

I just though of another thing that really bugs me. The inability to stack other items then potions and ingredients. Why can't I stack those 10 apples?

And the way to separate one from a stack of potions. When I had to put a potion in one of the chests for that puzzle in Shadowmirk I couldn't separate one potion from a stack. I only just figured out that you have to shift-click the stack. Could you add that in the description text for stacks? below the "Right-click to DRINK" you could put "Shift-click to separate"