Skill "Hide in Shadows" in melee combats

[CSR]

A friendly "hello" to everyone in this forum,

I bought "Eschalon Book I" about 6 weeks ago and am enojoying it. Thanks to Basilisk Games for this well done RPG.
Currently I am playing the game for the fifth time and with each character I stumbled upon the same inconsistencies with the cloak (Hide in Shadows +3):

But at first let me write a few words about the skill itself: As soon as a character has at least one skill point in Hide in Shadows he is able to sneak in the darkness along the border of the woods at night or along the walls in the dungeons. The writing "Hidden in Shadows" is visible underneath the mini map.

According to my understanding of the game mechanism, a character should be able to hide in the darkness if he has not a single skill point, but is wearing the cloak (Hide in Shadows +3). But I noticed that this doesn't work. The character won't be able to hide at all.

The more skill points one spends in the skill Hide in Shadows the longer the character will be able to hide during a combat. One skill point means that the adventurer will be seen by the enemies as soon as he hits one of them.
When I spend one skill point in Hide in Shadows and the adventurer is additionally wearing the cloak, he should be able to make more hits before he will get spotted. But my character will be seen as soon as he hits once.

All in all I get the feeling that wearing the cloak (Hide in Shadows +3) doesn't have an effect.

I think that it might be a bug, but I might be wrong though. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Turtle]

Searching the forums can provide answers to these questions. Sorry, I don't seem to be able to make a link, but check out a thread titled "Niggling questions", last entry Aug 18 2008. Or use the search function.

[CSR]

Thanks for your reply.

Searching the forums can provide answers to these questions.

In fact I have searched for this matter, but somehow missed this topic, found a lot of posts about "the best approach for rangers" and "reviews" instead. Thanks for mentioning it though.

"Why oh why is my cloak of the shadow not working? Doesn't it give me a hide in shadows of 3?"
Answer: Don't throw out the cloak yet! For some reason hiding in shadows doesn't seem to kick in unless you have a natural point in the skill first. Add a skill point or find and read the training book, then try the cloak again and you'll find it's helping.

It is my impression that this cloak will not even help if you have spent a skill point. Although my characters are wearing it and should have a skill of 4 they still get caught when they place their first hit. It is not the same effect as if I would spend three more skill points.

I have already read in this forum that Basilisk will change the characterictics of Hide in Shadows and Invisibility. I am looking forward to try out both skills then.

[Jakapa]

I stand to be corrected but find when I have hide in shadow plus cloak +3, I get hide in shadow 4.

I find all this gets you is the ability to need lesser shadow for hiding. I almost always break hide when I hit an enemy. (Even at 10+) but you can walk virtually in the open at night. All you need to do though is strike then take a step away.
Voila..Hidden again.

[CSR]

I know for sure that one can hide from sceletons and goblins within a combat several times without being noticed and making a step aside. Frankly spoken it is quite fun to stand in a dungeon, surrounded by four sceletons and hitting/damaging them several times while they are walking around and desperately trying to find you. And if you have been seen, one step aside and time for another round of plaing hide-and-seek.

Maybe I have misinterpret this skill.

My global thoughts about the effectivity of the skill "Hide in Shadows" in combats are:
- The smaller the weapon the easier it is to stay hidden after a single attack. Long blades might glaze in the moonlight.
- If the character has been spotted, he could hide again if he is steeping aside, but this will depend on his armor skill and his ability to move silently.
- If the character has been spotted, he could hide without moving if he crouch down (changing battle mode).

[Turtle]

You are talking about melee fighting, right? If you're using spells, it's a different story. Any spell that generates light (eg. Fireball) instantly reveals your location, no matter how high your Hide in Shadows skill is. Other than that, your chance of being spotted depends on your skill level and your Dexterity. If your Dex is very low, that might explain what you're experiencing.

I've found that a Hide in Shadows of 7 or 8, including the Cloak, is sufficient to hide as much as you want, if you have a decent Dex.

Also, I think you have a better chance of staying hidden if you use missile weapons. And taking a step in any direction really works if you've been spotted.

[CSR]

Yes, I was talking about melee fighting all the time. It seemed quite logical to me that the skill "Hide in Shadows" won't be helpful for a pure mage in combat.

You've mentioned Dexterity. That could explain my experiences with the skill and my impression that the cloak of shadow is not helpful. At that moment when I find the cloak, my characters' Dexterity is quite low and as soon as it would be high enough, I have already exchanged it with a cloak with a higher Base Armor Rating.

O.k., as it turned out that there is no bug in the game, I will rename the topic.
Thanks a lot for your input.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Hide In Shadows is working much better now, in Book II that is. The new Book II system, Hide in Shadows is a much more demanding skill- it requires you to stay in the corners of a room for maximum benefit and it requires more skill points for it to be practical. I was playing with a character at 6 points of HiS and when I stayed in the corners of the very dark rooms, not moving, with no light, was the only time I was Hidden. At 15-20 points I could walk more out into the room, as long as I stayed on the fringes of the torchlight (on the walls, not my own) and didn't make any sound, I remained hidden. Only after you reach Master levels (20+ points) does the skill start to feel more like an offensive skill than a defensive skill, giving you the ability to strike opponents in a semi-dark room and still manage to stay hidden...sometimes.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

In other words, you're going to make us work for it in book II. That's cool.

[BasiliskWrangler]

In other words, you're going to make us work for it in book II. That's cool.

Well, yes, if you are a character who is truly devoted to the skill, then you'll get the most benefit from it. The problem with Book I is that not only is this skill exploitable but it also gets too powerful, too early. In Book II this skill can still become really powerful, but only if you are willing to commit the points towards it. Also, the skill just functions better in Book II...it's more like how you think really hiding in shadows should be, with more benefit from using room corners and tree cover.

[CSR]

FYI:
I finally found a character/save file where I could test the skill Hide in Shadows and the Cloak of Shadows, I had one level up in spare:

I was in the Tangletree Ossuary, surrounded by 3 skeletons and hidden in the middle of passage. My character was a fighter, dexterity 35, attacking the opponents with his bare fists. I have tried not to move at all and counted how many times I would be able to hit the skeletons (with damage!) until my character was spotted. In this case I reloaded my save file and started from the beginning again.

Hide in Shadows Skill 3 (natural, without cloak): maximum possible hits: 2

Hide in Shadows Skill 6 (wearing the cloak): maximum possible hits: 7

Hide in Shadows Skill 6 (natural, without cloak): maximum possible hits: 10

I still think that there might be something wrong, but I can't prove it, because the maximum hits might depend on the number of skeletons next to my character. And maybe I haven't fought long enough - statistics...

Looking forward to Book II though.