Vampyre in 2nd edition?

[Xex]

Would it be possible to include a vampire race, or an option to become a vampire in game? You could have a mesmerize ability, ability to shapeshif into wolf/mist. Additioanlly, if you attack unarmed you gain health for damage dealt (blood drain). Plus you have a massive bonus to speed, dex and Strength.

To balance this out, you can only be active at night (so you play the entire game during the night!)

Thoughts?

[Josia]

I'm not a big fan of vampires in fantasy settings, especially not as PCs. Seems to mash genres and become a focal point all too easily. Plus, they've been done. It's not at all unique to have vampires; there's very little left one can do with them that hasn't already been done and overdone.

Nocturnal is an entirely different story; you could accomplish some of the mechanics of what you talk about without introducing the huge story and world changing element of intelligent, blood sucking, living dead who spread like a plague.

Eschalon right now is a nice, clean fantasy story with some nice twists so as to be unique. Either have vampires be the focal point (a game which I personally wouldn't buy) or don't include them at all so as to not screw up a good thing.

[Xex]

I'm not a big fan of vampires in fantasy settings, especially not as PCs. Seems to mash genres and become a focal point all too easily. Plus, they've been done. It's not at all unique to have vampires; there's very little left one can do with them that hasn't already been done and overdone.

You do ralize the irony of your statement? Everything is Eschalon has been 'done'. Exchalon simply redoes them with an emphasis on quality and charm. It can be the same with vampires. Also I would like to add Vampires have not really be done as pc's in a 3rd person fantasy rpg. (i.e. an rpg that is not just about vampires, such as Vampire: Redemption)

Nocturnal is an entirely different story; you could accomplish some of the
mechanics of what you talk about without introducing the huge story and world changing element of intelligent, blood sucking, living dead who spread like a plague.

Eschalon right now is a nice, clean fantasy story with some nice twists so as to be unique. Either have vampires be the focal point (a game which I personally wouldn't buy) or don't include them at all so as to not screw up a good thing.

I don't know where you get the idea of a world changing focal event. They don't have to be that way at all. And they don't have to spread like the plague. You could always say Vampires are made through terrible, rare necromantic magick that can only be done once a century or something.

[Josia]

You do ralize the irony of your statement? Everything is Eschalon has been 'done'. Exchalon simply redoes them with an emphasis on quality and charm.

I'm not sure I fully agree. There were definitely some elements of the mythos in general and the story of Book I in particular that seemed fresh, unique, or otherwise clever. Certainly these were often a new spin on an old idea, but the argument can pretty much always be made that no idea is truly new and as such is somewhat specious.

I think my point with this is that if you want to establish a niche for vampire-like creatures, you really don't need vampires ~ and the associated common cliche elements ~ to do so.

I don't know where you get the idea of a world changing focal event. They don't have to be that way at all. And they don't have to spread like the plague. You could always say Vampires are made through terrible, rare necromantic magick that can only be done once a century or something.

What you're describing aren't classical vampires. However, they also would really be appropriate for PCs.

In any event the original post sounded like "Add vampires as a playable race because they're cool and would have neat ability". All I am really trying to emphasize is that a well-designed fantasy world isn't built to just tack on things "because its cool". The designer needs to consider the implications to the plot and mythos of such decisions, otherwise the world (not to mention the mechanics) would quickly get inconsistent and out of hand.

Eschalon would probably be better served distilling similar requests into just a few core ideas and fitting them to the existing system rather than throwing them into the mix. Vampires as originally posted (mesmerize, shapechange, suck blood, and massive stat boosts) wouldn't fit into either the mythos or the mechanics.

[Josia]

To balance this out, you can only be active at night (so you play the entire game during the night!)

A side note to the specific mechanics proposed: As already mentioned in this thread, only being active at night is not much of a penalty at all. There is basically no penalty to playing only at night: shopkeepers are open, light sources or spells to counteract combat penalties are easily available, etc.

[Ihsan]

I have to disagree - i dont think vampires have been done to death and frankly could be a nice adition to book 2.

Vampires are present in Oblivion and the others in the series and certainly arnt "focal points" and "destroyed the whole mythos". They are more of a secret unlockable - which is fun and something different for people who like it. I mean there was no mention paticularly about druids in the whole game of Eschalon, but you can select that as a religion.

I think the penalty for being only active at night is that you need to waste time (and food/blood if one is to believe changes for book 2) camping, which also opens the risk of monster encounters. Im sure waking in the middle of the day to stave of some goblins could be very dangerous.

I believe a good reason to add vampires, is to give more depth and choices in character creation and also replay value to the game. Faith I think was a great stepping stone to so much more, why not have elemental attuned characters that get benefits when standing near there chosen element? Such as choosing water as your element - and when near bodies of water you regain mana faster etc.

[Josia]

I believe a good reason to add vampires, is to give more depth and choices in character creation and also replay value to the game. Faith I think was a great stepping stone to so much more, why not have elemental attuned characters that get benefits when standing near there chosen element? Such as choosing water as your element - and when near bodies of water you regain mana faster etc.

I would agree that there's a lot of potential for growth here. I would also (admittedly begrudgingly) agree that Vampires could fit in somehow.

I think this would fit way more into the category of "fitting [ideas] to the existing system" than the category of "because its cool". I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the kind of Vampire you're talking about isn't the mesmerizing, shapeshifting, way overpowered variety that worried me in the original post.

[Ihsan]

You are indeed correct Josia. I much prefer the vampires of white wolf fiction, to mindless killing machines - and as such I dont think some type of overpowered death on legs (no pun intended ) affair would be good. Of course the vampire should have some interesting abilities, such as hightened vision at night, to off-set disadvantages.

Interestingly vampirism could be handled much like a skill. Such as when you level up you can place skill points in it you gain powers. Much as is the case with spell casting at the moment.

This might help to balance things out.

[Simone]

It's funny cause we got lycanthrope in book 2. Not as PC but yeah.

[Tyranthraxus]

And, would vampires be shunned from the temples?
They can`t just have advantages, there would have to be a downside, or the balance gets screwed up.