Lilith is a Liar! (VERY SPOILERFUL)

[Unclever title]

On my latest playthrough I took things a little differently, after I had gotten to and through both Bordertown and Grimmhold I doubled back and went west along the southern edge of the Salted Coast towards and through the Ossuary and ended up in Crakamir at level 9 with a max HP of 30, Max MP of 46, poor defense and I was out of arrows, to top it off I had stored the gate key up in Bordertown and as you probably know if you've played through once the Ossuary path is one way.

This left me with two possible options for escape as I certainly couldn't handle the enemies unless I wanted to do a WHOLE lot of camping:

1. The lighthouse, but I didn't want to deal with the Dimensional Eyes just yet...
2. Make a mad dash for the Goblin Portal Hub, which is what I did.

In the process I managed to nab a pretty fun screenshot which is admittedly dim, if I took the time to brighten up things the picture wouldn't have been as balanced, so I didn't.



If you can't see, there are a total of 6 Acid Grubs converging on me. Fun. Times.

Anyhoo, my point in this roundabout way of saying things is that I got to blackwater before I came across Lilith, so I got the Shady Character's quest to kill her before I met her. And when you meet Lilith and are given the quest to retrieve the Hive Queen's stinger the reason she tells you for her not doing this herself is that she's allergic to bee stings...

I had a moment of epiphany that had not happened in any of my previous playthroughs!

What if I used the Hive Queen's stinger that she's making me get for her to kill her? Could Basilisk Games have so designed Lilith that if attacked with the Queen's Stinger that she'd die instantly or be tremendously weakened, poisoned, or something?

I had to test this, so after a dangerous expedition wherein I gained another level I returned to Lilith with the stinger in hand, let her tell me of my amulet how it holds a greater secret and all that jazz and then I stabbed her in the face with it (on the third try it actually caused damage!) and what happened then you might ask?

I ran like hell and took her out from a distance with arrows and haste spells because it didn't work. Lilith was a dirty liar forcing me to do her dirty work and I feel less bad about killing her.

To be honest I wasn't really expecting it to work since the stinger, though labeled as having a special attribute of poison never poisoned anyone when I used it (Granted I never used it much as I usually had a better weapon on hand). Still, I think you missed a good opportunity, BW, that would have added another layer of depth to the game to have subtle hints like that in the incidental parts of the text. It might be a bit late to add that stuff into Book II(if this kind of stuff is not in there already) but think of this as a suggestion for Book III or for when/if you remake/add onto Book I.

[MyGameCompany]

Interesting.

About the Ossuary path, I don't remember that being one-way. In my first playthrough, I entered the Ossuary via the Oubliette, and I immediately faced the ghost. The encounter left me cursed, and in a pretty weakened state. So I had to turn back. I was able to come and go several times between the Ossuary and the Oubliette.

Maybe it is only one-way if you go through the Ossuary first...?

[Painted Lady]

I've gone in and out of the Ossuary multiple times during a game (from all directions). Why couldn't you leave via the front door, quick travel to Bordertown to pick up the key (and some arrows) and return to the Ossuary to continue your quests? Am I missing some problem?

By the way, who knew Lilith was such a little liar? Nice of you to find that out...

[Unclever title]

Huh, that's weird... Well what I did was go through the Ossuary and was about to enter the Oubliette when I noticed a lever, so I hit it, the gates immediately behind me shut so I flipped the lever again and when I tried to go back through this way I came across another I opened earlier that now was shut (the gate right before the three switches to open the gate to the Oubliette.

I didn't think of it before but maybe that lever back there reset that gate and I would have to flip the three levers again... I'm going to have to check back on this.

EDIT: Okay I figured it out now, you have to hit those three switches every time to travel through in either direction, never realized that before.

Well I certainly don't begrudge the turn of events that transpired because I didn't realize that.

[MyGameCompany]

That's correct, you have to flip the three levers again.

[Painted Lady]

Also, I was looking at you and the Acid Grubs when I thought of something you might want to try. If you have enough Mana Points and own the spell Compress Atmosphere you can often nail a bunch of Grubs at once.

What you do is walk around gathering up all the local Grubs in a herd behind you. They need to be tightly packed together. Then hit the center of the herd with high level Compress Atmosphere. Not only will that weaken the entire herd, but when the weakest one pops his acid damages all of his buddies as well. It's really kind of fun to watch 3 or 4 die in a cascading event.

[Unclever title]

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind for the future. At the time my character lacked the spell, the sufficient mana (though enough level 3 mana potions) and the elemental skill to cast above level 1 compress atmosphere (not to mention the intelligence to learn the spell, minimum of 15 bonuses included.)

Since then he's gained every thing but the sufficient mana which is currently at a max of 45 (+5)

I'm playing a low max HP/MP character, which is why I'm playing him more like a ranger/thief/healer instead of his actual class of Magick User.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Also, I was looking at you and the Acid Grubs when I thought of something you might want to try. If you have enough Mana Points and own the spell Compress Atmosphere you can often nail a bunch of Grubs at once.

What you do is walk around gathering up all the local Grubs in a herd behind you. They need to be tightly packed together. Then hit the center of the herd with high level Compress Atmosphere. Not only will that weaken the entire herd, but when the weakest one pops his acid damages all of his buddies as well. It's really kind of fun to watch 3 or 4 die in a cascading event.

My personal record (with a ranger character who kept running and sniping to wound the pack of grubs) was 7 killed with the final shot and resultant chain-reaction acid splash. Much fun was had.

[PKodon]

Regarding Lilith and bees...

I wandered off SE of Lilith's house, and found a bunch of bees. As it was dark, I was able to take care of them rather easily by hiding in shadows. Oh, I should note that I did this after doing the "Kill the Queen Bee" quest for Lilith, as I noticed on the map that it looked like I had not finished exploring there.

Now, after exploring this area, I went back past Lilith's house and off to the West, and what do I run into but about a dozen or more bees waiting for me at the crossroads. Well, I ran back to Lilith's house, bees in pursuit, ran into her bedroom and shut the door, then pressed the space bar while I watched her take out the bees.

I don't suppose I got any experience points for doing this, but still, it was fun to watch her and the bees take each other on. I had to go outside and bring some more in for her a couple times, but she took care of them all, and I only got stung a couple of times.

Not only that, but when I came back to kill her (on the Shady Character's Quest), she only had half of her HP left, so it was an easier job.

It would seem to me that, if she really were allergic to bee stings, she wouldn't have survived that battle, or would have died soon after from poison.

Oh well, back to the game.

[Unclever title]

Regarding Lilith and bees...

I wandered off SE of Lilith's house, and found a bunch of bees. As it was dark, I was able to take care of them rather easily by hiding in shadows. Oh, I should note that I did this after doing the "Kill the Queen Bee" quest for Lilith, as I noticed on the map that it looked like I had not finished exploring there.

Now, after exploring this area, I went back past Lilith's house and off to the West, and what do I run into but about a dozen or more bees waiting for me at the crossroads. Well, I ran back to Lilith's house, bees in pursuit, ran into her bedroom and shut the door, then pressed the space bar while I watched her take out the bees.

I don't suppose I got any experience points for doing this, but still, it was fun to watch her and the bees take each other on. I had to go outside and bring some more in for her a couple times, but she took care of them all, and I only got stung a couple of times.

Not only that, but when I came back to kill her (on the Shady Character's Quest), she only had half of her HP left, so it was an easier job.

It would seem to me that, if she really were allergic to bee stings, she wouldn't have survived that battle, or would have died soon after from poison.

Oh well, back to the game.

Nice strategy, and another missed opportunity for the game designers.

I'd also like to note that this isn't a criticism of Basilisk Games or anything like that, these kinds of subtleties are rare in games and non-existent in most. But it's also these kind of subtleties and attention to detail that can really set a game apart. And I like a lot of the people on these forums want Basilisk Games to do well, and also to play really awesome RPGs.

[Palog]

Subtle details like that can be rare but the more you add them the more possible bugs you have. In this case, can bees poison you? Ie is bee poison implemented? I don't remember that, well I never let them much chance to do that so perhaps I got lucky.

For me many dialogs options end too soon. For example you could not thanks for the sword in chest after to have get it. For the story point of view I won't argue about good and bad events, but I felt a missing opportunity to let player think the husband is dead, get the reward, have one more dialog to make you even more sad and then later unexpectedly you found the husband alive. Not everything should be happy end like that but one in a game isn't bad.